HC Deb 09 February 1971 vol 811 cc269-71
Q3. Mr. Arthur Davidson

asked the Prime Minister when he next intends to meet the Prime Minister of Canada.

The Prime Minister

Following our recent meetings in Ottawa, Delhi and Singapore, there are at present no plans for a further meeting.

Mr. Davidson

When the Prime Minister does meet Mr. Trudeau, will he bear in mind that his sense of humour is bound to be a little more sophisticated than that of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite? Will he not insult the intelligence of the Prime Minister of Canada by pretending to him that there is an overall strategic reason for supplying arms to South Africa?

The Prime Minister

The Prime Minister of Canada fully appreciated the reasons which I put to him, and also recognised that Canada has not the same interests in the trade routes in the Indian Ocean as Britain has.

Mr. Thorpe

When the right hon. Gentleman says that the Prime Minister of Canada fully appreciates the arguments he put forward, he would not, I am sure, wish to imply, or to have the House under the misapprehension, that the Prime Minister of Canada agrees with or accepts any part of his argument. Will he at least correct the record in that regard? Does he not accept that we are very surprised that the Prime Minister does not wish to keep in closer contact with those whom he regards as his chief allies in the defence of the free world—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—by visit ing Mr. Vorster, whose anti-Communism is such—[Interruption.]—that 90 per cent.—

Sir R. Cary

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is the rule suspended for the Leader of the Liberal Party's supplementary question?

Mr. Speaker

My purpose is to get through as many Questions as possible, and I ask the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Devon, North (Mr. Thorpe) to be brief.

Mr. Thorpe

I will conclude in 30 seconds, barring interruptions. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Mr. Vorster's anti-communism is such that 90 per cent. of right hon. and hon. Members of this House, under South African law and South African standards, would be regarding themselves as Communist?

The Prime Minister

I thought that the right hon. Gentleman had learnt from his experience yesterday of his daily increasing danger of boring and wearying the House with his charges. [Interruption.] I did not say that Mr. Trudeau agreed with any policy put forward by the British Government, and, therefore, the record does not need correcting. What I said was that he appreciated the argument and accepted that the decision is one for Britain, and Britain alone.

Mr. Harold Wilson

So that both Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Vorster can know what Her Majesty's Government's intentions are about arms, will the right hon. Gentleman tell us when he intends to make a statement in the House on the Government's policy with regard to the shipment to South Africa of all those arms that were not in the very narrow list which the right hon. Gentleman's own Law Officers regard the Government as obligated to supply under the Simonstown Agreement? When he next meets Mr. Trudeau, will the Prime Minister make clear to him that what he said in Canada publicly about his obligation has been disproved even by his own Law Officers?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely wrong. If he reads the accounts of what I have said in Ottawa or in any other place where the Press has asked me questions, or in this House—indeed, if he asks any Commonwealth Head of Government what the Prime Ministers were told in Singapore —he will get exactly the same answer—which is, as I explained to them, first, that these are legal obligations on the British Government, which have been set out by the Attorney-General in his advice to Parliament and which the Government have long been aware of; and, secondly, that there are reasons of general British policy, common sense and straightforward dealing why we should fulfil those obligations. When the Government think it appropriate to make a statement, we will do so.

Mr. Harold Wilson

I not only read what the right hon. Gentleman said but heard his voice saying it on the B.B.C. Is the Prime Minister aware that what he said then is very different from what the Law Officers have stated in their White Paper? If he wants to shuffle off the question about when he is going to make a statement, will he at any rate give an assurance that no arms will be supplied beyond those covered in the list—whether we agree with it or not—contained in the Attorney-General's White Paper?

The Prime Minister

I shall give no such assurance. The Government will make the statement when they think it appropriate and not at the request of the Leader of the Opposition.