§ 5. Mr. Sillarsasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he has 1644 taken to obtain accurate information on the number of jobs created or saved by his allocation of £1.75 million to winter work programmes for the relief of unemployment; and if he will state the number of jobs created or saved.
§ 15. Mr. William Hamiltonasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what effect the winter special relief programme has had on the unemployment situation; and what further steps he intends to take to solve this problem.
§ Mr. Gordon CampbellIt is not possible to make reliable estimates of the emloyment effects of particular projects of this kind; and I note that estimates were not given for similar schemes in recent years. I am confident that the scheme as a whole is well worthwhile.
§ Mr. SillarsIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that 115,000 unemployed can be equated to a national disaster in Scotland'? Is he further aware that his allocation of £1.75 million for the relief of the unemployed, a contemptible little measure, shows the callous disregard of the Tories for the plight of the unemployed?
§ Mr. CampbellI was well aware on arrival in office—when I found within a few days of arrival in office that there were 93,000 unemployed in Scotland in the mid-summer—that a situation of this kind was bound to develop as the autumn and winter drew on. A deputation of hon. Gentlemen opposite came to see me in September and urged me to launch such a scheme urgently, although they recognised the limitations of any such emergency scheme. I launched it as soon as I could.
§ Mr. William HamiltonIs not the honest answer that no jobs have been created by this miserable scheme? Why did not the right hon. Gentleman at least match the much greater figure which was produced earlier in the year by the former Secretary of State?
§ Mr. CampbellThe answer to the first part of that supplementary question is "No". Jobs have been created—
§ Mr. HamiltonHow many?
§ Mr. Campbell—and in other cases where men would have been laid off, they are being kept on. It is impossible to 1645 make a reliable estimate of the numbers. When hon. Gentlemen opposite were in office they made no attempt to give public estimates of similar programmes.
§ Mr. DempseyWould the right hon. Gentleman put aside party points for a moment and recall that only two weeks ago it was announced that 750 jobs had been lost in North Lanarkshire? What practical steps does he propose to take to try to replace those 750 lost jobs?
§ Mr. CampbellI will have an opportunity to answer that supplementary question at some length in the debate which will follow this Question Time. I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman seems to think that the first supplementary question from his hon. Friend the Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Sillars), was not political.
Earl of DalkeithIs my hon. Friend aware that one marvels at hon. Gentlemen opposite having the nerve to make some of the comments that they have been making about the present unemployment figures, bearing in mind the fact hat when they were in office they were responsible for the loss of about 85,000 jobs in Scotland?
§ Mr. CampbellI never marvel at the irresponsibility of hon. Gentlemen opposite. I am getting used to it.
§ Dr. Dickson MabonWe envy the right hon. Gentleman's record in this regard. How much of this total of £1.75 million is represented by 100 per cent. grant schemes to local authorities? Is it one or none? Would he post hoc be good enough to tell us how many jobs this programe has produced and how much of the money was actually spent by the time limit, remembering that we did both?
§ Mr. CampbellI have already answered several questions about the composition of and allocation within this scheme. I am prepared to answer more of such questions if hon. Gentlemen opposite will table Questions on the subject. I will also consider whether it is possible, post facto, to see what was achieved by this scheme because it may help similar schemes in future, though I hope that we shall not need such a scheme in any winters to come.