§ 5. Mr Clinton Davisasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what requests he made for the release from detention of Mr. Joshua Nkomo and the Reverend Ndabaningi Sithole during the course of his negotiations with the illegal régime and Mr. Smith in Rhodesia.
§ The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Sir Alec Douglas-Home)The substance of my discussions in Salisbury must remain confidential. Mr. Nkomo's case is covered by the section in the White Paper about detainees. The Reverend Sithole however is in a different category as he is serving a prison sentence.
§ Mr. Clinton DavisIs that reply not a supreme example of the right hon. Gentleman's propensity for appeasing Fascist régimes? How could any reasonable basis of assessing African opinion be reached without the release of these two gentlemen? Is it not a fact that Mr. Nkomo has been unlawfully detained for many years, and that the Reverend Sit-hole was punished by a bigoted court without any real responsibility?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI hope that the hon. Gentleman will keep an open 7 mind. The important thing is that these gentlemen should make their opinions known to the Commission of Acceptability.
§ Mr. Robert HughesWould the Foreign Secretary accept that to obtain free and proper discussions before the test of acceptability—and to show the feeling of both Governments towards a settlement—a general amnesty for all those detained, under whatever law, should be made available, to show good will?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThat was not a condition made at the time of the attempted settlement on "Fearless". As far as the detainees are concerned, the hon. Gentleman will perhaps have noticed that some 54 detainees have been let out in the last month and the rest will be inquired into by a tribunal.
§ Mr. HattersleyThe Foreign Secretary said—and this is roughly the view of hon. Gentlemen opposite and on this side of the House—that the important thing is for Mr. Sithole's views to be given to the Commission. When in Salisbury, did the right hon. Gentleman receive any assurance, which he could repeat to the House, that Mr. Sithole will get this opportunity and that no barrier will be raised in his way to giving evidence?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI cannot say in what way Mr. Sithole will be able to express his opinion. He sent me a long memorandum and Mr. Mugabe, his right-hand man, came to explain Mr. Sithole's views.
§ Mr. HealeyI must press the right hon. Gentleman on this. A moment ago he said that Mr. Sithole would be free to give his views to the Commission. Most people who know the situation in Rhodesia will feel that it is indispensable that he should be free. Surely the right hon. Gentleman sought some assurances from Mr. Smith on this? If he has not done so, will he do so immediately?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThere is no doubt that Mr. Sithole will be able to express his opinion, as he did to me, but in exactly what form I would not commit myself now. It will be for the Commission to satisfy itself that it has his opinion.
§ 16. Mr. Whiteheadasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what communications he has received from leaders of African Governments, and Africans inside Rhodesia, relating to his announcement on 25th November, 1971, of a proposed settlement with the illegal régime in Rhodesia.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeTwo messages have so far been received from African leaders in reply to a message which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister sent them when the proposals were announced. None has been received from Africans inside Rhodesia.
§ Mr. WhiteheadIn view of the reported widespread mistrust of the Pearce Commission, as at present constituted, by Africans inside Rhodesia and responsible African leaders throughout the continent, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman when he will be in a position to announce additional names? Can he say whether one of them will be African?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI have said that I will announce the names very soon.
§ 7. Mr. Laneasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when the commission to test acceptability of the settlement proposals will start work in Rhodesia.
§ 15. Mr. Strangasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a further statement on the composition and timetable of the commission set up to ascertain whether the proposals for granting independence to Rhodesia are acceptable to all sections of the population.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeAs regards the composition of the Commission, I am considering the possibility of appointing an additional Deputy Chairman or Deputy Chairmen, and the House will be informed as soon as a decision is reached, which I hope will be very soon. On timing, I understand that given the complex planning involved, it is unlikely that the Commission will start its work in Rhodesia until the New Year.
§ Mr. LaneWhile thanking my right hon. Friend for that information, could I ask him to make it clear that the Commission will do its work with complete 9 thoroughness, with no pressure of deadlines and with ample time for the proposals to be clearly explained to Africans in Rhodesia?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThis is most important, and the Commission can take as long as it feels is necessary.
§ Mr. StrangWhen the Foreign Secretary appointed Lord Pearce to be Chairman of the Commission was he aware that he was the only judge to dissent from the Privy Council's recommendation that the Smith régime be made illegal? How does he expect a Commission headed by such a man to be acceptable to educated Africans in Rhodesia?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThere is no question about Lord Pearce's impartiality in this matter. He is impartial and will be acceptable.
§ Mr. HealeyWould the right hon. Gentleman clear up an uncertainty which many hon. Members will have about the nature of the Commission? He referred to a number of commissioners and one or two additional Vice-Chairmen. He also told the House that there was no particular importance about the requirement that the report would be signed only by the Chairman and Vice-Chairmen, thereby implying that all commissioners would sign the report. Is this the case, and will the Commission be a substantial one, consisting in all—Vice-Chairmen and commissioners together—of 15 to 20 persons?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeLord Pearce feels that about 16—which would roughly make the number the hon. Gentleman suggests—would be necessary to fulfil the task. The report will probably be signed by the five.
§ 11. Miss Lestorasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will publish in full the details of the discussions between himself and Mr. Joshua Nkomo.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeNo, Sir. Like my other discussions with African leaders in Salisbury, my discussion with Mr. Nkomo was confidential.
§ Miss LestorIs the Foreign Secretary not aware that any secrecy about discussions with the detained African leaders would be very bad indeed when discussing 10 any test of acceptability? Would he therefore comment whether we would be right in assuming that the report in the Observer of 28th November by Colin Smith about the discussions with Mr. Nkomo was an accurate report?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeAs for the accuracy or otherwise of the conversations I had with Mr. Nkomo, the hon. Lady will remember that I saw over 100 Africans and groups of Africans, and it would be impossible to disclose one conversation without disclosing them all.
§ 54. Mr. Milneasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will arrange for representatives of the major Rhodesian African political parties led by Joshua Nkomo and the Reverend N. Sithole to attend future Commonwealth conferences as observers in order to report on developments in Rhodesia arising from the agreement between Her Majesty's Government and the Smith régime.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeIt is not within the British Government's power to make such arrangements.
§ Mr. MilneIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is a disappointing reply since it closes one of the main avenues to African opinion following the take-over by the Smith régime? Do not the coloured peoples of Rhodesia need protection by the British Government so that the Commonwealth and world opinion may be informed about what is happening in Rhodesia after the settlement?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThis must be a matter for the Commonwealth generally to consider, if it wishes to do so. It is not a matter for Her Majesty's Government alone.
§ 55. Mr. Arthur Lewisasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether, in view of the fact that the United Nations have agreed to ask two imprisoned Africans to address them on the Rhodesian problem, he will seek to persuade Mr. Ian Smith to permit these men freedom and facilities to travel to the United Nations offices.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThe White Paper makes it clear that agreement was reached on the release of a number of 11 detainees and the consideration by a tribunal of the release of others. Whilst the Rhodesian authorities are aware of the Security Council proposal, we are not in a position to require them to allow the persons concerned to visit New York.
§ Mr. LewisIs the right hon. Gentleman aware of the fact that my Question refers to a request by the United Nations made since the White Paper? Since the Foreign Secretary and Lord Goodman appear to have a lot of influence with Mr. Smith, could not either he or Lord Goodman fly to see Mr. Smith to try to persuade him to allow these gentlemen to go to address the United Nations? Since these gentlemen have neither committed nor been found guilty of any crime, is this not the least the right hon. Gentleman can do?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThe Rhodesian authorities have been informed, and I intend to take no further action.
§ 19. Mr. William Hamiltonasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what official communications he has received from other members of the Commonwealth to his proposals for a settlement of the Rhodesian problem.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeWe have received one formal communication from a member of the Commonwealth on this subject and have had a number of informal contacts. The content of these exchanges is confidential.
§ Mr. HamiltonCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether he intends to invite official comment from members of the Commonwealth and, if he does, will he take the trouble to circulate the official replies in the OFFICIAL REPORT? Is he aware that from the evidence we can adduce, from newspapers and other sources, the bulk of the African members of the Commonwealth and the coloured members of the Commonwealth are emphatically against the proposals put before the House?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeMy right hon. Friend took the trouble to write a letter to all the heads of the Governments in the Commonwealth, describing the proposals. We had only two official reactions to this. It is up to any Commonwealth 12 leader to reply to my right hon. Friend's letter at any time.
Mr. Edward TaylorIf my right hon. Friend accedes to the request of the hon. Gentleman to publish the reactions of the African political leaders, will he at the same time make it clear whether such leaders observe the five principles in their own countries?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI think that we can safely leave this matter to the leaders of the Commonwealth Governments.
§ Mr. Robert HughesWill the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that all the evidence supplied to the Pearce Commission will be published in full in the report?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThat must be for the Commission to decide.
§ 42. Mr. Ronald King Murrayasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make it his policy to seek to arrange for the United Nations Organisation to take over Southern Rhodesia as a trust territory under Articles 75 and 81 of the United Nations Charter, in the event of the test of acceptability resulting in the rejection of the proposed settlement.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThe Pearce Commission have to ascertain whether the present proposals are acceptable to the people of Rhodesia as a whole. I do not want to prejudice their task by anticipating a particular result of their work.
§ Mr. MurrayIs the Foreign Secretary aware that his answer does not pass my test of acceptability? Does he not see that the test of acceptability in Rhodesia will be a farce if the participants are not informed of the Government's alternative policy to a settlement with Smith?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeThe hon. and learned Gentleman asked me before I went to Rhodesia to make a forecast of what I would do if my mission failed. I decline to make a forecast now.
§ Mr. TapsellOn the subject of the test of acceptability, does my right hon. Friend expect to be in a position to tell the House what the full membership of the Pearce Commission will be before we 13 rise for Christmas, and will he say whether reports emanating from Salisbury, and which appeared in the Sunday Telegraph yesterday, saying that it is in his mind now to appoint 14 commissioners, are correct? Or is this a confusion between commissioners and assessors?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI think there may be some confusion, because the whole lot are really known as commissioners. There will be five and I hope very soon to be able to announce the two additional names. On what is known as the Commission on the Test of Acceptability I think there will be 16 further members whom Lord Pearce would like to have.
§ Mr. HealeyMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman in this connection whether he will arrange for hon. Members to be given copies of the English text of the document purporting to explain the meaning of the Commission in simple terms and which I understand the Government are preparing also in African languages for the Commission's use?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeYes.