HC Deb 01 December 1971 vol 827 cc432-4
19. Mr. Lambie

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will supply for each of the individual housing authorities in Scotland the deficits on housing accounts, at any suitable date, and his estimate of the number of years each authority would require to eliminate such deficits and balance its accounts, under the provisions of the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Bill.

Mr. Younger

Part 5 of the "Rating Review", published in January, 1971, by the Scottish branch of the Institute of Municipal Treasurers and Accountants, contains the most recent figures of deficits on the housing accounts of most Scottish local authorities. I cannot estimate how many years it will take each authority to balance its housing revenue account under our proposals, because for each council this will depend, for example, on increases in its housing expenditure, the amount of its new subsidies and its deficit at the start of the new system.

Mr. Lambie

I am disappointed in the Under-Secretary of State's reply. It is strange that the Government have given this information to the local authority representatives. Is the hon. Gentleman willing to congratulate the Burgh of Saltcoats on its high position in the housing deficit league? Will he admit that this efficiently-run town, with the lowest council rents in Scotland, is one of the highest in the league, and will he take the opportunity of getting off the council's back and getting on to the backs of the Tory local authorities with high rents and high deficits?

Mr. Younger

I am afraid I cannot accept all the hon. Gentleman has said. He will understand that I should like to take advice from a wide range of opinion before congratulating Saltcoats on its housing policy. It is impossible to make forecasts of what the effect will be until all the figures I have mentioned can be established.

Dr. Dickson Mabon

Is that quite true? The Under-Secretary of State on 17th November sent to local authorities specimen model accounts, and we should welcome a copy of these for each individual Member. Is it not true that on the basis of the model accounts, using the five assumptions in the accounts, one can discover what the position would be for each individual authority right through the years until 1975–76? If that is true, why cannot it be done for individual authorities when hon. Members ask such a question?

Mr. Younger

We must be clear that it is perfectly possible to make a calculation for an individual authority once we have the figures and facts on which the new system will be started, but we shall not have those until next May when the system starts. I can make available to anyone who wants it a copy of the specimen which I have sent out, but I hope everyone will realise that this is a specimen and not an actual copy. One cannot take simply one figure out of it and apply it to any other authority. It is a specimen and only for guidance. Each individual authority has to make its own calculations.