School Children (Transport)

HC Deb 05 August 1971 vol 822 cc1815-7

3. Mr. Hicks

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if she will set up a departmental committee to investigate all aspects of the problems associated with the transport of school children in rural areas.

Mrs. Thatcher

My right hon. Friend the Minister for Transport Industries and I are in touch about the problems of transport in rural areas, but consideration of the issues involved is still at a very early stage.

Mr. Hicks

I am pleased to learn of these consultations. Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that with the withdrawal of public bus services, the school bus is in many rural areas the only daily link between various communities? In reviewing this matter, will she see whether it is possible to incorporate one with the other, which would probably do away with the inflexible and, in my view, outdated concept of mileage limits?

Mrs. Thatcher

There is a later Question about mileage limits. I am well aware of the problems connected with the transport of children to and from school in rural areas. My Answer was meant to be sympathetic without entering too much into a commitment.

Mr. Ashton

The right hon. Lady does not wish to enter into a commitment, but meantime will she look at the situation in Nottinghamshire, where parents have been told that the transport fee is to be increased from £1 to £4 a term for children attending primary schools? This increase, together with the additional cost of school meals, is a severe burden on parents with young families.

Mrs. Thatcher

This is a matter in which local education authorities have a good deal of discretion. From what the hon. Gentleman said, it appears that the local education authority in this case is using its discretion and he is complaining about the way in which it may be using it.

22. Mr. Scott-Hopkins

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science, if she will cancel the regulations regarding free transport of children to school in view of the increasing problems the two and three-mile rule is inflicting on parents, and institute free transport for school children of all ages.

Mrs. Thatcher

The two and three-mile walking distances are laid down in the Education Act. Legislation would be needed to change them and I have no present proposals on these lines.

Mr. Scott-Hopkins

Would my right hon. Friend look at this again? Does she not agree that it is becoming one of the most urgent problems in rural areas, causing a great deal of hardship not only because of rising fares but because of the difficulties and problems with transport in these areas? Would she treat this as a matter of urgency and if possible make room for it in the legislative programme in the coming Session?

Mrs. Thatcher

Local education authorities have discretionary powers to pay fares within these limits. They are used to varying extents, and if my hon. Friend has any problems in his own constituency perhaps he would consult his own local education authority.

Mr. Loughlin

Will the right hon. Lady take it that on an issue of this kind she would have no difficulty in getting legislation to deal with it? Is she aware that in many rural areas this is becoming a very difficult problem? Does she appreciate that we would be only too glad, knowing that we might have done it ourselves, to rectify this position and give her all possible assistance?

Mrs. Thatcher

May I make it clear that over the statutory limits local education authorities have to pay fares; under these limits they may pay.

Mr. Longden

Could my right hon. Friend say how much this proposal would cost? As it must always be a question of priorities, perhaps books might come before free transport. Could not some of the money saved on feeding children's bodies be switched to feeding their minds?

Mrs. Thatcher

We have not been able to cost free transport by altering the limits. At present £25 million is spent on providing free transport, that is, both through the statutory payments over the limits and the discretionary payments within them. Even at present the sums are considerable.

Mr. Bob Brown

Will the right hon. Lady accept that this is now a problem not only in the rural areas but in the urban areas, particularly with school reorganisation, when children often have to catch two or three buses to get to school? Is she aware that with increasing fares it is becoming an added hardship? Will she accept that the method of calculating distances by education authorities often causes hardship because children do not fly like crows? The trouble with many education authorities is that they measure distance as the crow flies.

Mrs. Thatcher

I am afraid that the local education authorities are coming in for a pounding on this. They have powers to provide their own transport as well as to pay for transport for children. I accept that in some areas the problem has been aggravated by setting up very large schools where formerly there were a number of smaller schools serving the area.

Mr. Scott-Hopkins

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment in the next Session.