Concorde

HC Deb 21 April 1971 vol 815 cc1151-5

1. Mr. Carter

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a statement on Concorde.

2. Mr. Sheldon

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a statement on his meeting with the French Minister of Transport on the future of the Concorde.

5. Mr. Mather

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a statement on further progress on the Concorde project.

6. Mr. Barnett

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a further statement on Concorde.

7. Mr. Hugh Jenkins

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a further statement on Concorde.

The Minister for Aerospace (Mr. Frederick Corfield)

I have been asked to reply.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and I will be meeting the French Minister of Transport tomorrow to review the project. In the meantime, I have nothing to add to my previous statements on this subject.

Mr. Carter

I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he accept that a large number of people believe Concorde to be in economic terms a monumental folly, but will he none the less agree that if, out of Concorde, we can build a truly European aircraft industry the project might prove worth while?

Mr. Corfield

I accept that there are differences of opinion on the future of Concorde, and I accept, of course, that a move towards a European industry would be valuable.

Mr. Sheldon

Would not the right hon. Gentleman accept that one of the major weaknesses of his Department has been an inability to come to any quick decision but while this decision has yet to be made, it continues to spend millions upon millions of pounds? Will he not now agree that the decision in America to cancel the SST has killed any lingering hope there might be that Concorde would be a financial success, and will he look at it in these terms?

Mr. Corfield

I do not agree. This is purely speculative. It is much too early to make a reasoned assessment of the effect of the cancellation of the SST on the future of Concorde.

Mr. Mather

As the development of Concorde has reached a crucial stage, will my right hon. Friend urge upon our French partners to keep the momentum going now?

Mr. Corfield

This is a matter which will be a subject of our discussions tomorrow.

Mr. Barnett

How much expenditure has the Minister already committed on production aircraft, and on how many aircraft, without the prior approval of the House? Will he at least give an assurance that he will not commit any more without coming back to the House, and will he assure the House that, if he comes to a decision tomorrow, he will present a White Paper setting out all the facts so that the House itself may decide and make a clear judgment on what he is doing?

Mr. Corfield

The production finance has been announced to the House on several occasions. The estimates of future expenditure are constantly under review, and they will be discussed tomorrow. As and when it is necessary to announce to the House any change in the figures previously announced, this will be done.

Mr. Jenkins

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that the only opinion which is committed to Concorde is politically, economically or in one way or another unfree opinion in favour of the project, and all independent opinion assays it in a manner which suggests that the project is not one which has a future? In view of that, will he not set up an inter-departmental committee to assess the project independently so that a conclusion which is not prejudiced can be reached?

Mr. Corfield

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question could well be reversed, on the basis that it is only those who are committed against it in some way who take that view. However that may be, the matter is under constant review, and we make use of such experts and committees as may be desirable.

Mr. Tebbit

Will my right hon. Friend be so kind as to instruct some of the detractors of this fine example of international co-operation to read the current aeronautical Press and get their facts straight before they try to blacklist the project and put out of employment many thousands of people in both this country and France and set our industry back another 20 years?

Mr. Corfield

I accept from my hon. Friend that a great deal of the criticism stems from lack of understanding.

Mr. Benn

Will the Minister say whether a selling price has been agreed, and whether he has any idea when the B.O.A.C. and Air France orders will come? Second, could he help the House, because, since the vote in Congress in March, all the figures relating to Concorde really need to be recalculated on the possibility that it has 10 or 15 years alone in the Western world, and it would be helpful if he could give the House some indication of how this affects the prospects for the aircraft?

Mr. Corfield

The matters raised in the first and last of the right hon. Gentleman's three questions are ones that we shall obviously discuss tomorrow. His second question concerns B.O.A.C. and Air France. B.O.A.C. has made it quite clear that it is anxious to operate the Concorde. It is in discussion with the Government and the firms about the best ways of doing so.

Mr. Biffen

Since a decision on the commercial future of the aircraft is of such magnitude that it should be undertaken without the din of the articulate aviation lobby, which is evident in all quarters of the House, can my right hon. Friend confirm that we are now at the point where the issues of the development of the Concorde belong to past history but the future commercial prospects of the aircraft have still to be determined by the Government and voted upon by the House?

Mr. Corfield

The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's question is "Yes". As to the first part, there is still a certain amount of development work to be done, but, although I accept that the din of the lobby can sometimes be great, it is quite a good idea to have some knowledge.

Mr. Adley

In view of the din made by the detractors of Concorde, theatrical and non-theatrical, will my right hon. Friend do his best to ensure that the circumstances in which the decision to cancel the American SST was taken, based on complete lack of any realistic information, do not occur here, and also to ensure that as much factual information as possible is made available not only to the purchasers of Concorde but also to the public?

Mr. Corfield

I am in touch with the firms on this aspect.

15. Mr. Mather

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a statement giving details about the Air France commitment on Concorde.

The Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Mr. David Price)

I have been asked to reply.

This is one of the questions about which my right hon. Friends will be seeking information from M. Chamant when they meet tomorrow.

Mr. Mather

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Has he any present information as to the numbers required by Air France?

Mr. Price

None that I could give with authority to the House.

17. Mr. Hugh Jenkins

asked the Minister of Aviation Supply whether, in view of the further escalation in its cost, he will cancel Concorde and put the resources saved into the development of the RB211.

Mr. Corfield

I have been asked to reply.

No, Sir: the case for each must be judged on its merits.

Mr. Jenkins

Would not the right hon. Gentleman at least accept that, whereas there are differences of opinion whether supersonic civil transport is a viable proposition, there is no difference of opinion anywhere that the British aero-engine industry is absolutely vital and must continue? Therefore, if he, as now seems possible, finds himself forced into the position of having to choose, will he not put these resources behind the aero-engine industry, which, as universally agreed, is necessary, rather than behind the supersonic project, which is the subject of disagreement?

Mr. Corfield

I have said previously that I entirely agree on the vital nature of the aero-engine industry but I have never accepted that the RB211 itself is vital to that industry. It is important but not vital.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Is it not the case that the U.S.S.R., which is realistic in these matters, believes in SST? Can my right hon. Friend say what stage the Russians have now reached?

Mr. Corfield

The information available to us is not very precise. I understand that it is proposed to put the TU144 into service in Russia during the coming autumn. But, of course, the whole of the Russian approach to flight-testing and so on is different from ours. They put their aircraft into service at a somewhat earlier stage.

Mr. Warren

Would not my right hon. Friend confirm that if Concorde were cancelled large numbers of Rolls-Royce workers would be made redundant?

Mr. Corfield

Yes, of course I appreciate that, and as much from a constituency point of view as any other.