HC Deb 06 April 1971 vol 815 cc223-7
8. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services by how much he estimates the basic retirement pension would have to be increased in the autumn to take account of inflation since the last increase was made; and what would be the total cost involved assuming that all other benefits were similarly treated.

Sir K. Joseph

By less than the increases announced last week, the total cost of which is estimated at £560 million.

Mr. Hamilton

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept the National Institute's estimate that by early 1972 the increase that the pensioners will get in September of this year will be eroded to the position that the pensioners are no better off than they were in 1965 and that there will still be 18 months to go before the next increase is given? In view of these facts and assertions, will the right hon. Gentleman assure us that there will be an annual review of pensions rather than a biennial review?

Sir K. Joseph

The hon. Gentleman's party put into a Statute a requirement of a two-year review, from which they would not have been able to depart. I do not see how anyone can be sure of the value of the pension as far ahead as a year from now. But I am confident that the pension, by the end of September, will be worth more than it was when it was last raised.

Mr. Fry

Would my right hon. Friend accept congratulations from this side of the House on increasing old-age pensions in general, on bringing forward the dates on which they will be increased this year, and on making the largest increase in old-age pensions in history?

Sir K. Joseph

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Both sides of the House want to do the best that is practicable for pensioners.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

The right hon. Gentleman has laid the blame on the Labour Party because it instituted only a two-year review, but is he aware that when the two-year review was instituted, prices were not rising to the extent that they now are?

Sir K. Joseph

When the previous Government wanted two years to increase pensions, as opposed to our 22 months, prices were rising at over 6 per cent. a year.

Sir G. Nabarro

Does my right hon. Friend agree that none of the tendencies postulated by the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) would be realised if the Government dealt decisively and drastically with the appalling inflation resulting from the policies of the last Government and that, if he stabilises prices, with his colleagues, old-age pensioners will be the first to benefit?

Sir K. Joseph

Yes, Sir. I believe that excessive wage claims are a way by which many of the present wage earners are stabbing the pensioners in the back.

Mr. Stallard

By how much will the supplementary pension be reduced when this increase in retirement pension is granted in September?

Sir K. Joseph

That was all announced last Wednesday. The supplementary pensioner will receive as much between November, 1969 and September, 1971 as the retirement pensioner gets.

19. Mr. William Price

asked the Secretary of State for the Social Services how many letters asking for an increase in retirement pensions have now been received by his Department since 18th June.

Sir K. Joseph

This information is not available.

Mr. Price

What will happen to the nearly three million people in receipt of supplementary benefit when the pension increase is implemented? Are we to see a repetition of the "fiddle" we had on previous occasions, including under the last Government, with old folk having an increase, on one hand, and losing their supplementary benefit, on the other? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that nothing causes more ill feeling, bitterness and disappointment among old people?

Sir K. Joseph

The argument is well known to the House that the poorest, namely, those on supplementary benefit, have an increase on account every year, that is, in intervening years between the biennial review of pensions. That is the way in which both Governments have protected the worst off from the effects of inflation.

Mr. Concannon

When answering the letters, will the right hon. Gentleman point out to the pensioners that it is a certain class of people who pay for the increases, the same class whom earlier today the right hon. Gentleman described as stabbing the pensioners in the back?

Sir K. Joseph

The hon. Gentleman would be wrong if he did not connect excessive wage claims with the inflation that hits the pensioner. I am sure that most of the workers involved do not realise what they are doing, but it is sheer humbug when some trade union leaders lead campaigns to help the pensioner when at the same time they are stoking up excessive wage claims.

Sir B. Rhys Williams

Does my right hon. Friend recognise that one of the most popular features of the package he announced last week was the relaxation of the earnings rule, which enables pensioners to help themselves?

Mr. George Thomas

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his ill-tempered and bad-mannered replies merely reveal that he has something to hide in his attitude to the old people?

Sir K. Joseph

I would have hoped for a better attack than that from a Celtic romantic like the right hon. Gentleman.

22. Mr. James Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services by how much the pension payable to retirement pensioners in November, 1969 has decreased in purchasing power, to the latest convenient date; and if he will make a statement.

Sir K. Joseph

As measured by the General Index of Retail Prices, the purchasing power of retirement pensions fell between November, 1969 and February, 1971 by £0.48 for a single person and £0.78 for a married couple at November, 1969 prices. The hon. Member will no doubt have noted the statement I made on 31st March.—[Vol. 814, c. 1499–1514.]

Mr. Hamilton

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree, in view of that erosion, that either the pension increase should be paid now instead of in September, or it should be paid retrospectively? Does he agree that the pension should be reviewed annually, to ensure that pensions keep pace with the cost of living?

Sir K. Joseph

No, Sir, and I hope that we need not take for granted the immediate past or present rate of inflation. I am sure that it is helpful for the pensioner to be able to count in general on something like a two-year review of pensions.

Sir G. Nabarro

Is it not a fact that even if the rate of inflation during the period since September, 1969 continued until 20th September next, which it will not, the £1-a-week increase in the single rate of pension is still 50 per cent. more than the rate of inflation since September, 1969?

Sir K. Joseph

My hon. Friend spoilt his case by the last figure. It will be better than the rate of inflation, but I should not like to give a figure for how much it will be better.

Mr. Skinner

The right hon. Gentleman spoke earlier of the workers stabbing the pensioners in the back. Is he aware that it was his Government who dismantled the Consumer Council, resulting in 6,000 price increases; that it was his Government who dismantled the transport subsidies, resulting in higher fares; and that in all their many other measures it is his Government who are responsible for the present inflation?

Sir K. Joseph

No, Sir. The hon. Gentleman has got his economic forces and the scale of the matter completely wrong. It is overwhelmingly the excessive wage claims, unaccompanied by increases in output, that are damaging the pensioners.