HC Deb 23 November 1970 vol 807 cc15-6
17. Mr. Barry Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he plans to alter the boundary lines between Flint-shire and Cheshire so far as the Dee Estuary is concerned, as proposed by the Ordnance Survey.

Mr. Peter Thomas

No, Sir. I have no powers to do so in the absence of proposals from the county councils.

Mr. Jones

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Welsh national boundary has always been hard by the Wirral shore, certainly since 1284, and that this was confirmed in 1732? Is it not an outrage that the faceless bureaucrats of the Ordnance Survey should indicate that the boundary might be changed? Will he fight and fight again to retain the territorial integrity of our nation, on the understanding that, if he does not, it will be said of him that he is too busy clearing up the mess in Central Office to listen to the rightful requests of the land of his fathers?

Mr. Peter Thomas

The hon. Gentleman is becoming as boring as his hon. Friends in that respect. [Interruption.] The line shown on the Ordnance map is, I am advised, arbitrary. It has no legal significance. The Ordnance Survey is, I understand, seeking to establish what the right line is in consultation with the local authorities concerned.

Sir A. Meyer

x: Is the Secretary of State aware that lines drawn on maps tend to acquire importance as precedents and that if it were to become established that the boundary line runs so close to the Flintshire coast, a large area of land which is about to be reclaimed could find itself outside Wales and, therefore, not available for Revenue purposes to Wales?

Mr. Peter Thomas

I appreciate that. The issue, however, is what the correct legal boundary is. It can best be settled by the authorities concerned in consultation with the Ordnance Survey.

Mr. Elystan Morgan

Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to take legislative powers to have the line fixed in the same position as that which it has occupied since time immemorial?

Mr. Peter Thomas

That is precisely the issue—where the legal line is. I am not prepared to say that I would take legislative powers, though I am prepared to consider the question.

Mr. Jones

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. With due deference to the Secretary of State, I wish to give notice that, because of the unsatisfactory nature of his reply, I may raise this matter on the Adjournment.