HC Deb 05 November 1970 vol 805 cc1234-6
6. Mr. Judd

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will make a statement on the Government's plans for the future of the fire service in Great Britain, following publication of the Holroyd Report.

Mr. Maudling

Her Majesty's Government endorse the Committee's conclusions that the operational efficiency of the fire service, in terms of attendance and performance, is highly satisfactory, that the service should remain under local authorities' control and that recruitment should continue to be based on the principle of one-tier entry; but they will form no detailed conclusions on the specific recommendations without full consultation with the local authority and fire service associations, which will be undertaken as soon as all concerned are ready.

Mr. Judd

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that very positive reply. Would he not agree that, in view of the very difficult work being done by firemen and fire officers throughout the country, often in difficult circumstances, any doubts about the future structure of the service, particularly in view of the length of time that they have waited for the report, must be resolved as quickly as possible, in the cause of efficiency and morale? Can he promise an early statement in detail from the Government?

Mr. Maudling

I hope that my state-men today will be of some assistance. I agree that it is important to press ahead with these consultations on this very important report.

Mr. Merlyn Rees

But would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that some of the recommendations of Holroyd could be implemented much more quickly? Would he assure us that we shall not have to wait until all the recommendations can be implemented?

Mr. Maudling

We shall press ahead as fast as we can, after adequate consultations.

26. Mr. Sillars

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will detail official bodies consulted to date on the Holroyd Report on the fire service; and if he will make a statement.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Richard Sharples)

The County Councils Association, the Association of Municipal Corporations, the Greater London Council, the Association of County Councils in Scotland, the Convention of Royal Burghs, the Scottish Counties of Cities Association, the Chief Fire Officers Association, the National Association of Fire Officers and the Fire Brigades Union.

Mr. Sillars

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that while we are awaiting the final judgment of the Holroyd Report and the ultimate report we shall get from Lord Roben's committee on health and safety at work, fire authorities could make a very important contribution to safety from fire in factories and the home by using more extensively than is the case at present operational firemen on fire prevention duties?

Mr. Sharples

That is certainly a matter that I should like to look at.

27. Mr. Sillars

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations he has received from the Fire Brigades Union on fire service pay and conditions; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Maudling

The normal machinery for negotiating fire service pay and conditions is the National Joint Council for Local Authorities' Fire Brigades; but the Fire Brigades Union have asked me to set up an independent tribunal, and I am considering this request.

Mr. Sillars

Will the Home Secretary accept that the patience of firemen and of our fire service generally is stretching to breaking point? Will he accept as a genuine statement from the Fire Brigades Union that the firemen have lost confidence in the current negotiating machinery in so far as it relates to the current claim on pay and service conditions?

Mr. Maudling

I have seen both the Fire Brigades Union and the local authorities. I think that both sides are equally sincere in the position they have taken. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I am not a direct participant, but I hope that in my independent position I may be able to do something to resolve the deadlock.