§ 37. Sir B. Rhys Williamsasked the Secretary of State for Social Services which benefits under National Insurance for which beneficiaries become entitled by the payment of contributions are only payable subject to a test of means.
§ Mr. EnnalsNone, Sir.
§ Sir B. Rhys WilliamsIs the hon. Gentleman aware that his Department's proposals for introducing a means test for unemployed men receiving occupational pensions are unpopular and also introduce a highly unacceptable principle? Will he undertake to withdraw his proposals and come forwad with another recommendation which does not conflict with the whole basis of national insurance?
§ Mr. EnnalsI assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall not give that assurance. He is aware that the matter has been carefully considered by the National Insurance Advisory Committee which, with only one dissenting voice, made its recommendations, which have been much modified by my Department. When the hon. Gentleman says that they are unpopular, he should remember that there is also unpopularity in the country with that section of society who have retired and who are receiving substantial occupational pensions while at the same time drawing unemployment benefit.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterIs it not a fact that the one dissenting member of the National Insurance Advisory Committee was Lord Collison, whose experience in social welfare is unrivalled? Should not his views be respected? The Order has been floating about for weeks, and, although the hon. Gentlemen will not give an assurance, is not that an indication that it will be quietly dropped?
§ Mr. EnnalsI think that the right hon. Gentleman will find that he is wrong. It is true that the one dissenting voice is a very distinguished and very experienced voice. But the experience and weight of the majority are distinguished, too. It is strange to argue that the minority should always have its way. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the matter will come before the House very shortly.