Unqualified Teachers (Hansard, 7 May 1970)

§ 26. Mr. Dodds-Parker
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what action he is taking to ensure that the posts vacant as a result of the loss of 3,000 teachers who are not fully qualified are filled.

§ 27. Mr. More
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to ensure that adequate replacements are available for the 3,000 unqualified teachers who will be compelled to retire under the Schools (Amendment) Regulations, 1968.

§ Mr. Edward Short
There will be more than enough teachers available next September to make good the loss of unqualified teachers. In February, 1970, there were about 800 full-time occasional teachers in service but there were 14,200 more qualified teachers than a year earlier, and I expect a further increase this year of about 17,000.

§ Mr. Dodds-Parker
In the event of some of the unqualified teachers being retained in their jobs, will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that even if they are not technically qualified they will be given reasonable security of tenure?

§ Mr. Short
They have never had security of tenure. They have been employed either as occasional or temporary teachers in the period since 1944. I am not prepared to allow any unqualified teachers to continue after 1st September.

§ Mr. Dodds-Parker
Really! After 25 years in the job—

§ Mr. Short
If they have had 25 years in a job they can appeal to me. Under certain conditions I am prepared to give qualified status to a number of people if they appeal to me.

§ Mr. More
Whatever rule may be made for teachers who have not yet started teaching, is not it disgraceful that teachers who have the confidence of their head masters and of the children should be debarred from teaching merely for the technical reason that they are unqualified, as a result of the bargain between teachers, the local education authorities and the Minister?

§ Mr. Short
I would not call it disgraceful to try to ensure that the country has a fully qualified teaching service; I would regard it as a great step forward. I would not send my dog to be treated by an unqualified vet, but a great many hon. Gentlemen opposite are prepared to send their children to be taught by unqualified teachers. I have told the House that I 565 am prepared to give qualified teachers status to certain categories of teachers. I cannot go further than that. I have discussed this matter this week with a number of hon. Gentlemen from the other side of the House, and I am prepared to look at a number of points, especially the teacher who has been serving, admittedly on a temporary basis, for a great many years.

§ Mr. William Hamilton
Has not it been the aim of the teachers' unions for many years to get a fully qualified professional staff in our schools, and would not doctors and barristers, and all the people who are represented very well on the opposite benches, be the first to challenge the right of an unqualified barrister to practise or of an unqualified doctor to treat a patient?

§ Mrs. Thatcher
The right hon. Gentleman specifically drew the analogy of vets. In that profession as in many other professions, were not special arrangements made for those who had been in the profession for a long time and, as only about 800 unqualified teachers are involved, does not he think that special arrangements should be made for the vast majority of them?

§ Mr. Short
I wish the hon. Lady would learn her educational history. This step was taken with teaching in 1944 and, as a special measure, temporary teachers were allowed to be employed. The whole question of uncertificated and supplementary teachers, the two categories of unqualified teachers, was supposed then to be cleared up once and for all. They were all to be given qualified status when they had 20 years' service. This is a new situation, but the comparable situation with vets, dentists and a number of other professions was reached in 1944.

§ 29. Mr. Marten
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what further representations he has received about the dismissal of unqualified teachers in August, 1970.

§ Mr. Edward Short
I have had a few letters from hon. Members and others about a small number of individual cases. The matter was debated last week in another place during the Committee stage of the Education (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill.

§ Mr. Marten
My hon. Friends and I are grateful to the Minister for having received us with such courtesy earlier this week to discuss this problem. Is he aware that, although he may have had only a few cases, I have had more than 70 cases referred to me from all over the country, particularly of elderly teachers whom we should all like to see kept on until retirement?

§ Mr. Short
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends and some of my hon. Friends for putting hard cases to me. I know that there is one particular case in which the hon. Gentleman is interested. I have agreed to look into these specific cases and also to look into the cases of temporary teachers who have been teaching for many years. I am afraid that I cannot do anything for teachers who have only a very small period of service, but I am looking at the others.

§ Mr. Kenneth Lewis
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we on this side of the House receive many letters about unqualified Ministers, but we realise that the electorate will deal with this in due course? Before the Minister goes out of office, will he bear in mind that many unqualified teachers have become qualified by their achievements? When he receives representations will he bear in mind that the local education committees, since they have been satisfied with these teachers for many years, must have recognised their value?

§ Mr. Short
In reply to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I agree, looking opposite and seeing so many unqualified, unemployed ex-Ministers, that the electorate has dealt with them. In reply to the second part of the supplementary question, one of the factors which I shall take into account, and regard as essential, is a recommendation from the local authority.