REGULATIONS RELATING TO WAGES AND ACCOUNTS (Hansard, 11 March 1970)

§ Mr. Goronwy Roberts
I beg to move Amendment No. 12, in page 6, line 29, leave out 'contract' and insert: 'his obligations under the agreement'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this Amendment we will discuss also Amendment No. 11, in page 6, line 26, leave out 'under a crew agreement'.

§ Mr. Roberts
My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) raised on Second Reading and in Committee the matter of deductions authorised by regulations under the Clause in respect of "a breach of contract". It was generally felt by the Committee that these words might 1449 be construed in too wide a sense. In particular, my hon. Friends the Members for Kingston upon Hull, West (Mr. James Johnson), for Barrow-in-Furness (Mr. Booth) and for Oldbury and Halesowen (Mr. Horner), among other hon. Members, urged that the authorised deductions to which we refer here should relate to breach of a seaman's obligations under the crew agreement and should not extend to breaches of other contracts.
I did not think there was much danger of there being any dubiety on this point, but I said in Committee that I would wish to clarify the doubts that had been expressed and that it was not our intention to authorise deductions in respect of any breach of contract other than a breach of contract of employment. I undertook to consider whether I should tighten paragraph (a). I have reconsidered the matter and this Amendment substitutes the reference to a breach of his obligations under the agreement for the words "a breach of contract". I think that puts the matter beyond doubt.

§ Mr. Patrick Jenkin
I wish to refer to Amendment No. 11 which you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, have kindly said we can discuss with the Government Amendment No. 12. This Amendment repeats an Amendment we tabled in Committee to remove the words "under a crew agreement" to extend the power to make regulations to authorise deductions of wages payable under agreements other than a crew agreement—what is called in the Bill a company agreement. I am not at all convinced that these words ought to be in the Bill.
If I may, I advert without argument to Government Amendment No. 14 to Clause 14. We made a very similar point in that connection. The right to make repayments was being treated differently for seamen paid under a crew agreement for seamen paid otherwise than under a crew agreement. Under Clause 14 the Government have taken the point and recognised that they should put them on all fours and no distinction should be drawn.
In Clause10 we still have a distinction for the purpose of making deductions 1450 between a crew paid under a crew agreement and a crew paid otherwise. That does not seem to be right. It is perfectly legitimate for the owners to pay wages to their seamen and make deductions other than under a crew agreement and they should have authority to make deductions. If the Bill stays as it is, an employer who pays otherwise than through a crew agreement will not have authority to make deductions. It may be that one is chasing a false hare, but it seems that there should not be a distinction made between a crew paid under a crew agreement and a crew paid otherwise which perhaps the circumstances do not warrant.

§ Mr. McNamara
I thank my right hon. Friend for yet another acceptance of a proposal made in Committee. We disagreed about the interpretation of Clause 10, but my right hon. Friend has gone a long way to meet our proposals. He has removed the doubt and what now is in a crew agreement will be subject to negotiation by people in the industry. This being so, it gets back to a point I made that this is the right place for these things to be dealt with. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for acceding to our request.

§ Mr. Goronwy Roberts
I regret that inadvertently I did not address myself to Amendment No. 11, when I was speaking on Amendment No. 12. The hon. Member for Wanstead and Woodford will have heard my argument, but I will repeat it briefly. In our view, Amendment No. 11 is not necessary. There is no need for regulations to authorise deductions from wages payable otherwise than under a crew agreement because there is nothing in the Bill to prohibit it.
Clause 8(1), which prohibits unauthorised deductions, is limited to wages due under a crew agreement, so Clause 10 is also so limited. I am advised that there is nothing to prevent deductions from seamen's wages payable otherwise than under a crew agreement and therefore no need to authorise deductions. The gap between us is whether there should be a statutory provision. We are quite convinced that there is no need for an Amendment to make such provision.