§ 7. Mr. John Hallasked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is his estimate of the average profit to be. 1321 made by an efficient farmer, before charging any salary to himself or his wife, from milk production with a herd of 50 cows on some 80 acres of average grassland in the Home Counties, for the years 1968 and 1969; and what he estimates the farmer will receive in 1970 after the price review.
§ Mr. MackieWe do not make such estimates, but the Report on Farm Incomes in England and Wales, in Tables 7 and 8, summarises the available information for 1967–68. The corresponding report for 1968–69 will be published shortly. The outcome of the 1970 Review is not a matter for today.
§ Mr. HallIs the Parliamentary Secretary aware that I have made a personal survey of some of the farms of the size mentioned in the Question in my constituency? It appears that the average farmer who is farming less than 100 acres is getting about 6 per cent. return on capital employed. As farmers have to pay approaching 10 per cent. for money, in the Minister's view is there any future in farms of this size?
§ Mr. MackieYes, I would say that there was a future for farms of this size.
§ Mr. GodberWhat about the Home Secretary?
§ Mr. MackieI have plenty to do answering for myself without answering for others. I think that such farms have a future. We do much to help them with schemes, co-operation and such like.
§ Mr. StodartIs not the Home Secretary an agricultural Minister in his own right as looking after the interests of Northern Ireland? Can we have the Government's view, because there seems to be a distinct divergence between the Home Secretary and the hon. Gentleman?
§ Mr. MackieIf the hon. Gentleman had been listening, he would know that I just mentioned that.
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. Alfred Morris.
§ Mr. John HallOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice—
§ Mr. SpeakerA little too late; Mr. Alfred Morris.
§ Mr. Alfred MorrisAs the Question refers to the Price Review, can my hon. Friend say how many cost-plus price reviews there have been in the last 20 years, and when they were?
§ Mr. MackieTwo; one in the election year 1964 and one two years ago.
§ Mr. HallOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg leave to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.
§ Sir A. V. HarveyOn a point of order. You have just ruled, Mr. Speaker, that my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. John Hall) was not in time to give notice of an Adjournment debate. This is the first time that I have heard this Ruling. May I suggest, with great respect, that it needs clarification? Giving such notice is frequently clone to cut an argument short. Surely an hon. Member has the right to give this notice at the time he chooses?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir A. V. Harvey) is an old Parliamentarian, but we are wasting Question Time, which I must protect. I called the hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Alfred Morris) to ask a supplementary question. I had to protect his right to put a question. The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. John Hall) had an opportunity for expressing indignation after that.
§ 17. Mr. Peter Millsasked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is satisfied with the profitability of milk production at the present moment; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. Cledwyn HughesThe profitability of milk production is one of the matters being examined with the industry in the Annual Review.
§ Mr. MillsDoes the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is very difficult at present to make milk production profitable? Does he agree that one of the ways in which he could help is to take a far tougher line with the Irish Republic? Why does he allow them to get away with this? Will he take off the kid gloves and really deal with the problem of these cheese exports to this country?
§ Mr. HughesThe hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that there are quotas on butter exports from the Irish Republic and there is also a voluntary restraint agreement on cheese to which it is a party.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisWill my right hon. Friend please try to explain to hon. Members opposite that if we wish to export to the Irish Republic we must take some of their commodities? As we want to see an extension of exports and trade with all countries, will he carry on his excellent policy?
§ Mr. HughesI am much obliged to my hon. Friend. What he says is true, and it has been the policy of successive Governments. There must be a balance between exports and imports, and exports to the Irish Republic have been increasing year by year. On the other hand, under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement it exports dairy products to this country, but the amount is limited.
§ Mr. GodberIs that the right hon. Gentleman's intention in his next statement to the House to make milk production less unprofitable?
§ Mr. HughesWhilst we welcome the right hon. Gentleman back to the House after his illness, and are all glad to see him looking so well, he knows perfectly well that I cannot answer that question.