C.S. Gas (Hansard, 4 March 1970)

§ 1. Mr. Dalyell
asked the Secretary of State for Defence what new directions he has given to British troops in relation to the use of CS smoke or CS gas in Northern Ireland.

§ The Minister of Defence for Equipment (Mr. John Morris)
The directives on the use of C.S. issued to the troops in Northern Ireland are kept under review, but no amendment has been found necessary so far this year.

§ Mr. Dalyell
Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that, in the view of many of us, a finely balanced argument is involved? Could he consider in this difficult matter keeping in mind the fact that sometimes the use of C.S. may be more provocative than it is actually worth?

§ Mr. Morris
I bear in mind the sentiments of my hon. Friend, who takes a great interest in these matters. I am sure he will appreciate my viewpoint when I say that C.S. is a humane weapon less likely to cause injury than bullets are.

§ Mr. McMaster
Will the hon. Gentleman make sure that C.S. gas is not used as on the occasion in the Templemore Avenue, when it was used against people on their way to church when there was no fear either of damage to property or of fighting breaking out?

§ Mr. Morris
The instructions about the use of C.S. are based on the principle that the minimum of force should be used 384 to achieve an objective. Troops are instructed to make every effort to handle situations by less drastic means where possible.

§ Miss Devlin
Could my hon. Friend say whether before 14th August, 1969, stocks of C.S. gas held by the military were given to non-military forces or whether consultations were held with the military on the use of C.S. gas on those occasions?

§ Mr. Morris
That is another question. If the hon. Lady puts down a Question, I or one of my hon. Friends will seek to answer it.

§ Miss Devlin
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister's statement that I should table the Question in order, since I find it impossible to put it before the House?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is a puzzle for me at the moment that I cannot answer. The Minister has invited the hon. Lady to put down a Question.

§ 2. Mr. Dalyell
asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will state the circumstances under which Her Majesty's Government will be prepared to use lachrymates and tear gas in war.

§ Mr. John Morris
I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on 2nd February. C.S. can be used in a variety of situations as a means of limiting conflict and preserving life.—[Vol. 795, c. 17–18.]

§ Mr. Dalyell
Is my hon. Friend aware that even those of us who tend to be unhappy about these matters recognise that the Government's position is at least intellectually honest in this matter, but could we also express the hope that this should not interfere with the good work being done at Geneva and that distinctions are drawn?

§ Mr. Morris
I am grateful for my hon. Friend's remarks.

§ Mr. Fortescue
Does the intellectual honesty of the Government in this matter extend to the fact that they have decided that C.S. gas is not a gas and, therefore, does not come within the Geneva Protocol?

§ Mr. Morris
That is a travesty of the position. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs has set out the position at some length in the House.

§ 32. Mr. Pardoe
asked the Secretary of State for Defence what was the quantity and value of C.S. gas used by British troops in 1969.

§ Mr. John Morris
The quantity of C.S. used on operations by British troops in 1969 was 445 cartridges and 94 grenades valued at some £450.
The most up-to-date figures for expenditure on training show that some £8,730-worth of C.S. was used during the financial year 1968–69.

§ Mr. Pardoe
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his detailed reply, but could he say what proportion of total United Kingdom production this amounts to in value? Can he, in view of the Government's dishonesty in regard to the 1925 protocol, tell us whether the figure refers to C.S. gas or to C.S. smoke?

§ Mr. Morris
As regards the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I cannot give details without notice. As regards the second part, I reject entirely any suggestion of dishonesty on the part of the Government.

§ Mr. Hugh Jenkins
But is not my hon. Friend seeking some refuge in a word by refusing to condemn C.S. gas? Is it not risking the possibility of re-exposing mankind to the horrors of gas warfare?

§ Mr. Morris
No, Sir. C.S. gas, which has been developed over the years, is not significantly harmful to man other than in exceptional circumstances, and I am sure that my hon. Friend would find it difficult to differentiate between the use of C.S. gas in, say, riot control in this country, perhaps against our own people, and its use against other people in time of war.