§ 29. Mr. Ashleyasked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity if she will now introduce legislation to provide for the phased introduction of a national minimum wage.
§ Mrs. CastleI would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to the hon. Member for Hamilton (Mrs. Ewing) on 6th November, 1969.—[Vol. 790 c. 1172–3.]
§ Mr. AshleyIn view of the reference in the White Paper to a national minimum wage and the number of families living on incomes of less than £15 a week, does my right hon. Friend agree that a national minimum wage would be a valuable instrument for tackling poverty?
§ Mrs. CastleI certainly agree that a national minimum wage would be one way to help a substantial proportion of low-income households. However. it might be an unduly costly and cumbersome way of dealing with the matter. This is why I said in the White Paper that the problem of low pay should be tackled case by case and industry by industry. It is also why I am suggesting that certain references relating to the low pay problem should be made to the Prices and Incomes Board while we are giving further consideration to the question of a national minimum wage.
§ Mrs. EwingWhile the Minister is tackling this matter industry by industry and case by case, will she also tackle it place by place and look at the special need for this legislation in Scotland, where wages are lower and prices are higher?
§ Mrs. CastleNaturally, the purpose of the references which I shall make is to enable tile Prices and Incomes Board to identify pockets of low pay, wherever they may be.
§ Mrs. EwingThey are in Scotland.
§ Mrs. CastleAs I have told the House, I have been in consultation with the T.U.C. and the C.B.I. about the list of proposed references that I have put before them. I understand that the General Council of the T.U.C. yesterday approved the proposed references in principle and is now consulting its individual unions about the detailed suggestions.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it not now obvious, after the considerable experience that we have had and with respect to the trade unions, negotiations and other matters of this kind—including the efforts of the Prices and Incomes Board—that we cannot solve the problem of the lower-paid worker except through a national minimum wage enforced by law? May I direct my right hon. Friend's attention to the submissions which I made to the Attlee Government on two occasions—they probably require some modification now—on the subject of a national wage policy?
§ Mrs. CastleWhile sympathising with the aim of my right hon. Friend, I do not believe that a national minimum wage introduced by legislation would achieve its aim unless there were co-operation from the trade union movement. If a national minimum wage were used only as a new floor on which higher differentials were to be built, the whole process would be self-defeating. I have expressed a willingness to receive any representations from the trade union movement on the basis of the Report on a National Minimum Wage which I published.