§ 13. Mr. Dalyellasked the Minister of Overseas Development what help she is giving to Dr. Humpage of the Manchester College of Science and Technology in relation to power engineering in India.
§ Mrs. HartIt is planned to second Dr. Humpage to the Indian Institute of Technology, Delhi, under collaborative arrangements supported by my Department. He will advise the Institute on the development of postgraduate courses and research in power engineering and may also organise a conference on this subject.
§ Mr. DalyellDoes my right hon. Friend agree that this kind of secondment is, in terms of value for money, perhaps the best kind of aid that we can give? Could she say something about an intended follow-up, because difficulties are caused by raising expectations and then not being able to fulfil them?
§ Mrs. HartI entirely agree that this kind of arrangement is extremely beneficial in aid terms to the country concerned. I assure my hon. Friend that there will be no lack of follow-up. I visited the I.I.T. in Delhi and was enormously impressed by the way in which we can help in the very valuable work that it is doing.
§ 34. Mr. Huntasked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will make a statement on her recent visit to India.
§ Mrs. HartThe purpose of my visit was to study the problems and the successes in India's economic development, and to see for myself development projects, particularly those assisted under the British aid programme. I had useful talks on aid and development with Ministers and officials at both the State and Government of India level.
569 I found in India a very genuine appreciation of the contribution that Britain has made through both aid and private investment to their own great efforts to raise living standards. I am sure that we should continue and if possible increase this support.
With permission, I will circulate a more complete statement with the OFFICIAL REPORT.
§ Mr. HuntIn the course of her visit did the right hon. Lady go to the Ashok-Leyland factory in Madras, which is a splendid example of Indo-British cooperation? Will she try to encourage further ventures of this kind, which are an indirect, but none the less important form of overseas aid?
§ Mrs. HartI did not visit that factory although I met its management and had the opportunity of discussions with them. I did visit the Dunlop factory in Madras, which is a very good example of the kind of collaboration the hon. Member has in mind.
§ Mr. Carter-JonesWill my right hon. Friend consider the possibilities of the "third nation" type of co-operation whereby Britain can finance an arrangement under which India supplies finished products to other countries, which could lead to an improvement in India's balance of payments and ours?
§ Mrs. HartThis kind of matter was discussed at the technological collaboration meeting in Delhi, which I opened on behalf of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Technology, and it arose in the course of some of our own discussions.
Following is the information:My visit to India covered two main areas of development: agricultural and rural; industrial and urban.There is no doubt that in agricultural production India is pushing ahead fast, but it is clear that there is much yet to be done. Through visiting villages and agricultural schemes in Tamil Nadu, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and the Punjab, and in my talks with farmers, officials and academics, I have come 'O understand the real meaning of the "green revolution" and to appreciate the enormous contrast between the dry areas and the irrigated areas.In the Tanjore district of Tamil Nadu, in South India, where an agricultural development scheme has been under way for some years, the results are impressive. Both small scale and large scale farmers are adopting new 570 methods of cultivation, making full use of fertilisers and other inputs, and using new high yielding strains of rice. Because the area is well irrigated agricultural production is high. The relative prosperity of the region is clearly having its effect upon the people; farmers are ploughing part of their income back into their farms, and they are purchasing new machinery and consumer goods.The economic growth of the region is also having an effect on the attitude of women towards family planning; increasingly they are coming to understand that large families are a drain on their individual earning power.Much the same situation is apparent in the wheat growing areas of the Punjab where increased opportunities in agriculture are bringing about the growth of small-scale industries in the rural areas. All this is in direct contrast to the dry areas in Bihar and Madhya Pradesh where the almost total absence of ground water means that the rural communities are at the mercy of the monsoon and eke out a precarious living. The problem of bringing water to the dry areas is an enormous and costly one. There is a good deal of research going on into and zone farming, and I was assured that under their new plan the Indian Government intend to concentrate on this matter.In India it is impossible not to be struck by another contrast—between advanced technology on the one hand and great poverty on the other. I was able to see some of India's industrial sector, at Madras, Durgapur, Kanpur and Panna. I was very impressed with the industrial advances being made. At Durgapur the first priority must clearly be to get the steel complex working to its full capacity. While the industrial advances being made in India are encouraging, I could not escape the impression that the development of the rural sector is crucial to the country's economic growth, in terms not only of agricultural development in itself, but also in terms of the intermediate industry this promotes.My tour of Calcutta under the guidance of the city's planning organisation was a somewhat depressing experience. I visited two of the most poverty stricken "bustee" areas, and saw the attempts being made at re-settlement. There is no doubt that Calcutta—and other large cities of India—face enormous problems for which there is no easy or quick solution.I greatly valued this opportunity of acquainting myself at first hand with India's achievements and problems and of discussing these matters with the Prime Minister and with other Ministers, both in the States and in Delhi. I am sure that this experience will help me in making my judgments as Minister of Overseas Development about the way in which we should continue to support the efforts of this great country to develop its resources and to raise the living standards of the people.
§ 35. Mr. Huntasked the Minister of Overseas Development what financial help she proposes to give to the Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi in respect of equipment for the coming financial year.
§ Mr. HuntIs the right hon. Lady satisfied that this fully meets the requirements of the institute, which is now doing very much more advanced and sophisticated work?
§ Mrs. HartLooking to the future and following discussions and consultations that are to take place with the chairman of the committee established by Imperial College, we have very much in mind that our future commitments might be considerably greater.
§ Dr. MillerWould my right hon. Friend consider that since India is one of the few democratic countries in the world which we should be supporting she should single it out for special consideration in an area such as this?
§ Mrs. HartI am very much aware of the great value of Indian democracy. We do make a large contribution to Indian development. I was glad of the opportunity to see for myself how justified that is and how justified our future aid to India will be.
§ Mr. BiffenBefore the right hon. Lady assents to the suggestion of preferential treatment made by her hon. Friend, would she reflect on the harmful consequences of the Indian domestic policy of harassing overseas private investors?
§ Mrs. HartIf the hon. Gentleman cares to consult some of his acquaintances who are concerned with British private investment in India he will not come to such a wild conclusion.
§ 39. Mr. Blenkinsopasked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will make a statement on the new aid agreement with India.
§ Mrs. HartThe new aid agreements which I signed last week in Delhi included a non-project loan of £9 million to help restore British aid disbursements to India to the level achieved in recent years. This will cover British components, spare parts and materials required to maintain production in priority sectors of Indian industry. The other agreement was for £1.2 million of food aid, and forms part of our contribu- 572 tion under the Rome Food Aid Convention.
§ Mr. BlenkinsopWhile I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement, may I ask if she agrees that there is great anxiety about whether enough attention is being paid to India within the whole range of our aid programme?
§ Mrs. HartNo, I would not agree with my hon. Friend about that. I found in India a clear awareness of the high priority Britain's aid programme gave to India.
§ Sir A. V. HarveyWill the right hon. Lady say whether British aid has been given to India for fundamental research, bearing in mind that a great many brains are available for this type of work, and very little has been done in the past?
§ Mrs. HartMost of our help on this kind of research has taken the form of technical assistance and the secondment of professors or teachers from here, which has been very valuable. On the other hand, we have also provided in some technological institutions valuable and quite expensive equipment which is necessary for the fundamental research done there. I agree that this is a most important aspect.
§ Sir Harmar NichollsOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As the right hon. Lady may be leaving the Chamber, may I give notice that at the end of Questions I shall be raising a point of order on Question No. 34?