Murders and Crimes of Violence (Hansard, 18 February 1970)

24. Mr. Edward M. Taylor
asked the Secretray of State for Scotland how many murders and crimes of violence were reported to the police in 1969.

§ Mr. Ross
This information is not yet available.

Mr. Taylor
As the most recently published figures show that assaults on police officers have increased by about 81 per cent. since the abolition of capital punishment in 1965, and as net recruitment last year was only 12, will the Secretary of State consider taking steps to give further protection to police against assaults? As the Government have given time for Private Members' Bills on divorce and abortion, will not the right hon. Gentleman use his influence with the Cabinet to enable a Private Member's Bill on this subject to be presented?

§ Mr. Ross
The Question on the Order Paper asks how many murders and crimes of violence were reported to the police in 1969. The hon. Gentleman will be happy to know that the indications are that the number of crimes of violence went down last year. For instance, the Chief Constable of Glasgow provisionally estimates a decrease in crimes of violence of 10 cent. in the last year, and the tentative figure for murders in Scotland also suggests a drop. I take note of the hon. Gentleman's particular point, and will give it consideration.

§ Mr. Hugh D. Brown
Knowing my right hon. Friend's concern with the prob- 406 lem, and recognising the immense improvement that there has been, may I ask whether he would speculate on what he thinks is the dominating motivating factor in the campaign being conducted by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cath-cart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor)—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Ministers cannot speculate on Opposition Members' motives.

§ Mr. Brown
Then may I ask my right hon. Friend what he thinks is the motivating factor behind the attitude of certain hon. Members; whether it is because there are votes in it, or because—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Member cannot ask the Minister that kind of question.

§ Mr. Brown
I am asking my right hon. Friend whether he would care to advise the House on what conclusions, if any, he has come to regarding the campaign being conducted by certain hon. Members; whether it is because there are votes in it, or because hon. Members opposite have some financial interest in representations—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The Minister is not responsible for the motives, if any, behind some hon. Members' words or actions. Mr. Gordon Campbell.

§ Mr. Gordon Campbell rose
—

§ Mr. Brown
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Having been directed by you that the phrasing of my supplementary question was not in order, I thought that I had got into order by asking my right hon. Friend what conclusions he might have come to arising from a certain campaign. It seemed to me that that was quite in order.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman made every attempt to get in order, but did not quite succeed. Mr. Gordon Campbell.

§ Mr. Campbell
Has the Secretary of State been infected by the complacency of the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister over this situation? Because the relative severity of particular sentences seems to be widely misunderstood, will the Secretary of State ensure that more information is made available about the 407 effects, in practice, of certain kinds of sentence? Will he himself make a start by recognising the difference between the recommendation by a judge and a specification, as was suggested a short time ago by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh, Pentlands (Mr. Wylie)?

§ Mr. McNamara
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. When my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Provan (Mr. Hugh D. Brown) sought to put a supplementary question to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, he was seeking information about conclusions, and attitudes drawn from conclusions, which my right hon. Friend might have made. The hon. Member for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Gordon Campbell) started his supplementary question by asking what conclusions my right hon. Friend had reached, and referred to the attitude of my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary. You disallowed my hon. Friend's supplementary question, but allowed that of the hon. Gentleman opposite.

§ Mr. Speaker
It is a very good point of order. The difference is than an Opposition Member is asking a Minister about something connected with the Minister or the Government to which the Minister belongs. Mr. Ross.

§ Mr. Ross
I can hardly congratulate the hon. Gentleman the Member for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Gordon Campbell) on the way in which he read his carefully spontaneous supplementary question.
I certainly deplore the attempt to bring law and order and the police into the political arena. I prefer the facts. The facts are that in Scotland we inherited a sharply rising tide of violence. We first checked that rising tide, and are now reversing it, and some of the stunts of the hon. Gentleman and his Friends have hindered rather than helped us and the police.
If the hon. Gentleman asks for figures, I have them. He should prefer to get accurate figures. Police strength since 1964 is up by 282. Total police manpower is up by 1,075. Expenditure on police vehicles has doubled, and that on police radios has trebled. We have been giving concentrated attention to this 408 problem, and I wish that hon. Members opposite would help us instead of hindering us.

§ Mr. Speaker
Mr. Manuel.

§ Mr. Manuel rose
—

Mr. Taylor
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the wholly unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter again.

§ Mr. William Hamilton
Further to that point of order. Has there not been raised several times the desirability of hon. Members declaring an interest in particular matters when they are asking Questions? The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) is in the pay of the Scottish police, and this is inspiring some of his Questions in this House.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. It has been ruled that an hon. Member does not have to declare his interest when asking a question.

Mr. Taylor
Surely I am entitled to say that I have made public in every debate on the police in which I have spoken that I am the honorary consultant of the Scottish police, similar to the position previously honourably held by the right hon. Gentleman who is now Home Secretary. [Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. There is too much heat. Mr. Manuel.

Mr. Taylor
What did the hon. Member mean by his remarks?

§ Mr. Hamilton
That you are a squalid little man.