HC Deb 18 February 1970 vol 796 cc397-9
16. Mr. Younger

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now seek to amend the law relating to murder, so that the punishment for this crime shall be greater than that for any other crime.

Mr. Ross

The punishment for murder is already greater since the court is obliged to impose life imprisonment, which is imposed only very exceptionally for other crimes.

Mr. Younger

Is the Secretary of State aware that, in practice, a murderer may well serve a lesser time in prison than someone who is convicted of another crime not involving murder? Is he aware that his complacency on the subject is causing the Scottish public to be very angry indeed? How many innocent people have to be murdered before the right hon. Gentleman wakes up and does something?

Mr. Ross

I must deplore this blatant exploitation of emotionalism for political purposes. The hon. Member knows nothing whatever about the circumstances of any individual case, in respect of which responsibility eventually rests with me for the release of a person who has been sentenced to life imprisonment. Each case is considered on its merits. There has to be consultation with the Lord Justice General, there must be a recommendation from the Parole Board and eventually the decision is made. Every case is different. It is wrong for the hon. Member to create the impression that everyone is released after eight years. It is quite disgraceful that he should try to propagandise on that basis.

Mr. Woodburn

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Would not the hon. Member's Question amount to a criminal offence outside this House of murmuring the judges, who are not responsible to the Executive for the administration of justice?

Mr. Speaker

If the Question had been out of order, I would have disallowed it.

Mr. William Hamilton

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is just as much concern on these benches about the increasing incidence of crime, and particularly murder, in Scotland—and anywhere else—as there is on the other side of the House? Does he not agree that the important point, however, is to find out the causes and seek to remedy them rather than display the noose for the purpose of party political propaganda?

Mr. Ross

Yes, indeed. I think that we all feel very strongly about this, but passion is a poor judge in a matter of general legislation and we should be careful of it. Of course, we must look into the causes of crime, and that is what we are doing. I sincerely hope that people will reflect before they speak on this matter and impute motives to other people whom they pretend to call honourable.

Mr. Wylie

Without imputing any motives to the right hon. Gentleman, may I ask whether he is fully aware of the widespread feeling of anger, particularly among the wives of police officers? Have the Government ever considered, for example, amending the 1965 Act to enable the presiding judge to specify the period of detention in appropriate cases to other than simply to make a recommendation?

Mr. Ross

We have got to have confidence in our justiciary. The other day a presiding judge exercised his discretion to recommend, and this is right.