HC Deb 09 February 1970 vol 795 cc901-2
31. Mr. Macdonald

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many representations he has received since 15th December about unemployment benefit proposing that retired persons between 60 and 65 years of age who are barred from claiming unemployment benefit should also be exempted from paying insurance stamps.

Mr. Ennals

Five representations have been received suggesting that retired persons between 60 and 65 should be excepted from contributing if they are required to satisfy the additional conditions for unemployment benefit outlined in the statement I made on 15th December. In addition, 55 representations have been received suggesting that these persons should be credited with contributions.

Mr. Macdonald

While I agree that there is some element of the bogus in some of these registrations for employment by people retired at 60, are not the Government trying to have it both ways? If they are insisting that these people are genuinely retired, what is the reason for requiring them to go on paying the stamps?

Mr. Ennals

Of course we are dealing with those who are able to requalify, as very many will, in one field or another. The limitation does not apply to them. My hon. Friend will recognise that, in considering the crediting of stamps, we are dealing only with those with occupational pensions of more than £25 a week. So these are people with a substantial occupational pension, while many of them have an opportunity, if they wish to take it, of taking up other forms of employment.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

When will the regulations, about which the hon. Member made a statement as long ago as the middle of December, be laid? When they are, will he arrange with the Leader of the House that there is plenty of time to discuss a proposal which raises serious issues of principle, for which an hour and a half after 10 o'clock simply will not be enough?

Mr. Ennals

I cannot give the precise date, but I will convey to the Leader of the House the views expressed by the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Dean

Would the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this raises major issues of principle? Would he also take into account the point of his hon. Friend that there may well be, under the proposals which have been put forward, hardship among some people who are genuinely retired early through no fault of their own?

Mr. Ennals

I hope that it will be recognised that, in the case which my hon. Friend mentioned, we are talking only of those with occupational pensions of more than £25, a very small proportion of those who have retired, whose occupational pension is in a sense a form of deferred pay. But, certainly, there are important issues which were carefully considered by the National Insurance Advisory Committee, on whose recommendation we are, of course, bringing forward the regulations.