HC Deb 28 April 1970 vol 800 cc1191-7
Mr. Edward M. Taylor

I beg to move Amendment No. 13, in page 10, line 45, at end insert:— (c) in exercising the powers specified in (a) and (b) above, the Authority shall not engage in activities which were not undertaken by the superseded authorities unless an order authorising such extension of activities is approved by the Commons House of Parliament. In a period of five minutes we have to debate one of the most important Amendments to this Bill simply because a great deal of our time has been taken up with an Amendment put forward by supporters of the Government—[Interrup tion]—on which they decided not to vote after two hours discussion.

Mr. Speaker

Order. We have had a quiet debate; there is no need to disturb it.

Mr. Taylor

The Bill is a major extension of nationalisation in a country where a larger proportion of the working population works for public authorities than in any country outside the Iron Curtain.

We have just finished discussing an Amendment dealing with the powers of the N.P.A. to manufacture anything under the sun. The Amendment we are now discussing is designed to restrict the powers of the N.P.A. to set up warehousing, shipping and transport facilities without any practical limitation. Because of the guillotine, and the blatant attempt by hon. Members on the Government side to use up the scarce time of the House, we have only five minutes in which to discuss this serious issue—[Interruption] If the hon. Member for Bristol, Northwest (Mr. Ellis) does not think it important, let him bear in mind what this extension of powers will mean to the port workers of Bristol.

Mr. Ellis

The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) has been encouraging his hon. Friends to make speeches and whipping them into the Chamber, and to speak as he does is arrogant nonsense.

Mr. Taylor

The hon. Gentleman must be aware that this is blatant nonsense. Hon. Members on the Conservative side in the Amendments they have put down and in the speeches they have made have used the utmost restraint. There are key issues still to be debated—[Interruption]

Mr. Speaker

Order. When the hon. Member for Bristol, North-West (Mr. Ellis) spoke he was listened to. He must listen now.

Mr. Taylor

The hon. Gentleman must be aware, and so must every other hon. Member, that because of the Guillotine we have only minutes in which to deal with key issues affecting Manchester and many other ports and the jobs of thousands of dock workers. We are considering a major extension of nationalisation, and there can never be fair competition between a nationalised industry and the private sector. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury recently gave me an answer which showed that nationalised industries have been writing off capital at the rate of more than £1 million every day of the week since the Government came to power. What private firm has

this right? The more the manufacturing powers of nationalised industry are extended, the less is the opportunity for fair and free competition and the greater will be the economic mess into which the country is being plunged. This will mean more taxation, greater losses, and more writing off of capital. This is the price of Socialism and this is what we bitterly oppose.

If the Government were concerned for the well-being of Britain and of those who are employed in the industry they would allow the National Ports Authority to concentrate on the great problems which face it. We have seen from the White Paper " In Place of Strife ", now abandoned by the Government, the desperate position of labour relations in the ports. The Amendment suggests that the authority should limit its activities to sorting out the ports and not engage in manufacturing, warehousing, shipping and other activities. The Amendment is designed to restrict Socialism, and I hope that the House will support it.

Mr. Mulley

I cannot recommend the House to accept the Amendment because to bring every question of manufacturing, warehousing and storage to the Floor of the House would be a nonsense and would be the most ridiculous exercise of management functions by the House.

The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) complained of lack of time. I remind the House that we had 94 hours in Committee and that every single Amendment, every single Clause and every single Schedule was debated.

Question put, That the Amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 175, Noes 250.

Division No.[110.] AYES [10.30] p.m.
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Biffen, John Burden, F. A.
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Birch, Rt. Hn. Nigel Campbell, B. (Oldham, W.)
Amery, Rt. Hn. Julian Black, Sir Cyril Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn)
Archer, Jeffrey (Louth) Blaker, Peter Chichester-Clark, R.
Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S.W.) Clark, Henry
Awdry, Daniel Bossom, Sir Clive Clegg, Walter
Baker, Kenneth (Acton) Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Cooke, Robert
Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward Cooper-Key, Sir Neill
Barber, Rt. Hn. Anthony Brewis, John Cordle, John
Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton Brinton, Sir Tatton Costain, A. P.
Bell, Ronald Bruce-Gardyne, J. Crouch, David
Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Bryan, Paul Crowder, F. P.
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) Buchanan-Smith, Alick(Angus, N & M) Cunningham, Sir Knox
Berry, Hn. Anthony Buck, Antony (Colchester) Currie, G. B. H.
Dalkeith, Earl of Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) Pym, Francis
Dance, James Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Dean, Paul Jopling, Michael Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith Ridsdale, Julian
Dodds-Parker, Douglas King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey)
Doughty, Charles King, Tom St. John-Stevas, Norman
Drayson, G. B. Kirk, Peter Scott, Nicholas
du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward Kitson, Timothy Scott-Hopkins, James
Elliott, R.W.(NV tie-up on-Tyne,N.) Knight, Mrs. Jill Sharpies, Richard
Emery, Peter Lambton, Antony Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & whitby)
Errington, Sir Eric Lancaster, Col. C. G. Sinclair, Sir George
Eyre, Reginald Lane, David Smith, Dudley (W 'wick & L'mington)
Farr, John Langford-Holt, Sir John Smith, John (London & W'minster)
Fletcher-Cooke, Charles Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Speed, Keith
Fortescue, Tim Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Stainton, Keith
Foster, Sir John Lloyd, lan (P'tsm'th, Langstone) Stodart, Anthony
Galbraith Hn. T. G. Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M.
Gilmour, lan (Norfolk, C.) McNair-Wilson, Michael Tapsell, Peter
Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) McNair-Wilson, Patrick (New Forest) Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Glover, Sir Douglas Maginnis, John E. Taylor, Edward M.(G'gow, Cathcart)
Goodhart, Philip Maude, Angus Temple, John M.
Gower, Raymond Mawby, Ray Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Grant, Anthony Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Tilney, John
Grieve, Percy Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H.
Gurden, Harold Mills, Peter (Torrington) van Straubenzee, W. R.
Hall, John (Wycombe) Miscampbell, Norman Vickers, Dame Joan
Hall-Davis, A. G. F. Montgomery, Fergus Waddington, David
Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh) Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Morrison, Charles (Devizes) Wall, Patrick
Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles Walters, Dennis
Hawkins, Paul Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Ward, Christopher (Swindon)
Heald, Rt. Hn. Sir Lionel Murton, Oscar Ward, Dame Irene
Heseltine, Michael Nabarro, Sir Gerald Wells, John (Maidstone)
Hiley, Joseph Neave, Airey Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Hill, J. E. B. Nicholls, Sir Harmar Williams, Donald (Dudley)
Hirst, Geoffrey Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Hogg, Rt. Hn. Quintin Nott, John Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Holland, Philip Onslow, Cranley Woodnutt, Mark
Hordern, Peter Pearson, Sir Frank (Clltheroe) Worsley, Marcus
Hornby, Richard Peel, John Wright, Esmond
Hunt, John Peyton, John Younger, Hn. George
Hutchison, Michael Clark Pike, Miss Mervyn
Iremonger, T. L. Pounder, Rafton TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch Mr. Hector Monro and
Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) Price, David (Eastleigh) Mr. Jasper More.
Jennings, J. C. (Burton)
Albu, Austen Carmichael, Neil Evans, loan L. (Birm'h'm, Yardley)
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Finch, Harold
Alldritt, Walter Chapman, Donald Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston)
Allen, Scholefield Coe, Denis Foley, Maurice
Archer, Peter (R'wley Regis & Tipt'n) Coleman, Donald Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale)
Armstrong, Ernest Concannon, J. D. Ford, Ben
Ashley, Jack Conlan, Bernard Forrester, John
Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Fowler, Gerry
Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) Crawshaw, Richard Fraser, John (Norwood)
Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice Cronin, John Galpern, Sir Myer
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony Garrett, W. E.
Barnett, Joel Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard Ginsburg, David
Baxter, William Dalyell, Tam Golding, John
Beaney, Alan Darling, Rt. Hn. George Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C.
Bence, Cyril Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth)
Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Davidson, James(Aberdeenshire, W.) Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Anthony
Bennett, James (G'gow, Bridgeton) Davies, E. Hudson (Conway) Gregory, Arnold
Bidwell, Sydney Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Grey, Charles (Durham)
Binns, John Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside)
Bishop, E. S. Davies, Rt. Hn. Harold (Leek) Griffiths, Will (Exchange)
Blackburn, F. Davies, I for (Gower) Grimond, Bt. Hn. J.
Booth, Albert Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Gunter, Rt. Hn. R. J.
Boston, Terence de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Hamilton, James (Bothwell)
Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur Delargy, H. J. Hamilton, William (Fife, w.)
Boyden, James Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund Hannan, William
Bradley, Tom Dewar, Donald Harper, Joseph
Bray, Dr. Jeremy Diamond, Rt. Hn. John Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith
Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) Doig, Peter Haseldine, Norman
Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) Driberg, Tom Hattersley, Roy
Brown, Bob(N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Dunn, James A. Hazell, Bert
Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) Eadie, Alex Heffer, Eric S.
Buchan, Norman Edelman, Maurice Henig, Stanley
Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) Ellis, John Herbison, Rt. Hn. Margaret
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) English, Michael Hilton, W. S.
Cant, R. B. Ennals, David Hobden, Dennis
Hooley, Frank MacPherson, Malcolm Roberts, Rt. Hn. Goronwy
Horner, John Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) Roberts, Gwllym (Bedfordshire, S.)
Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas Mahon, Simon (Bootle) Robertson, John (Paisley)
Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) Mallalfeu, E. L. (Brigg) Robinson, Rt.Hn.Kenneth(St. P'c'as)
Howie, W. Mallalieu, J.P.W(Huddersfield, E.) Rodgers, William (Stockton)
Hoy, Rt. Hn. James Mapp, Charles Rose, Paul
Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) Marquand, David Ross, Rt. Hn. William
Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy Rowlands, E.
Hughes, Roy (Newport) Maxwell, Robert Sheldon, Robert
Hunter, Adam Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert Shore, Rt. Hn. Peter (Stepney)
Hynd, John Mendelson, John Sillars, J.
Irvine, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur Mikardo, Ian Silverman, Julius
Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) Milian, Bruce Slater, Joseph
Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) Miller, Dr. M. S. Small, William
Janner, Sir Barnett Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test) Snow, Julian
Jeger, Mrs.Lena(H'b'n & St.P'cras, S.) Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) Spriggs, Leslie
Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) Steel, David (Roxburgh)
Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) Steele, Thomas (Dunbartonshire, W.)
Jones, Dan (Burnley) Morris, John (Aberavon) Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John
Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley
Judd, Frank Murray, Albert Swain, Thomas
Kenyon, Clifford Neal, Harold Taverne, Dick
Kerr, Mrs. Anne (R'ter & Chatham) Newens, Stan Thornton, Ernest
Kerr, Dr. David (W'worth, Central) Oakes, Gordon Tinn, James
Kerr, Russell (Feitham) Ogden, Eric Tomney, Frank
Latham, Arthur O'Halloran, Michael Wainwright, Richard (Colne Valley)
Lawson, George O'Malley, Brian Walden, Brian (Alt Saints)
Leadbitter, Ted Oram, Bert Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
Lever, Rt. Hn. Frederick (Newton) Orbach, Maurice Wallace, George
Lever, Rt. Hn. Harold (Cheetham) Orme, Stanley Watkins, Tudor (Brecon & Radnor)
Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) Oswald, Thomas Weitzman, David
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Page, Derek (King's Lynn) Weltbeloved, James
Lomas, Kenneth Paget, R. T. Whitaker, Ben
Loughlin, Charles Palmer, Arthur White, Mrs. Eirene
Lubbock, Eric Pardoe, John Whitlock, William
Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) Parker, John (Dagenham) Wilkins, W. A.
Mabon Dr. J. Dickson Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch)
McBride, Neil Pavitt, Laurence Williams, Clifford (Abertillery)
McCann, John Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) Willis, Rt. Hn. George
MacColl, James Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred Wilson, William (Coventry, S.)
Macdonald, A. H. Pentland, Norman Winnick, David
McElhone, Frank Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) Winstanley, Dr. M. P.
McGuire, Michael Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.) Woodburn, Rt. Hn. A.
McKay, Mrs. Margaret Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) Woof, Robert
Mackenzie, Alasdair(Ross & Crom'ty) Price, William (Rugby) Wyatt, Woodrow
Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) Probert, Arthur
Mackie, John Randall, Harry TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Mackintosh, John P. Rankin, John Mr. R. F. H. Dobson and
Maclennan, Robert Rees, Merlyn Mr. Walter Harrison.
McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) Rhodes, Geoffrey

It being after half-past Ten o'clock, Mr. SPEAKERproceeded, pursuant to the Order this day, to put forthwith the Questions on the Amendments, moved by a member of the Government, of which notice had been given.

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