HC Deb 20 April 1970 vol 800 cc23-7
52. Sir J. Eden

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will give an assurance that as a result of his discussions with the National Coal Board and with other producers steps are being taken to alleviate any short-fall in solid smokeless fuel next winter.

51. Mr. Emery

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a statement about the increasing shortage of solid smokeless fuel.

54. Mr. Patrick McNair-Wilson

asked the Minister of Technology what he estimates will be the shortfall in coke and other solid smokeless fuels for domestic and industrial consumption for the winter of 1970–71.

67. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the latest situation regarding the supply of smokeless fuel now and next winter.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Technology (Mr. Alan Williams)

I refer the hon. Members and my hon. Friend to the statement made in the debate on 9th April by my right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General.—[Vol. 799, c. 760–880.]

Sir J. Eden

Now that the Government are finally taking the shortage of solid smokeless fuel sufficiently seriously, could the Minister answer Question No. 52, where he is asked to give an assurance that measures are being taken that will alleviate the shortage next winter? Will he say what the Government's policy is about both imports of coking fuel and briquetting capacity in this country?

Mr. Williams

We are exploring all possibilities of improving supplies for next winter, and I know that all hon. Members will welcome this. In conjunction with the local authorities and other Departments, we are considering the possibility of diverting certain supplies from the public sector by conversion of boilers. We are also investigating the gas works closure programme, and the National Coal Board is considering the possibility of importing briquettes made from anthracite duff exported from this country.

Mr. Patrick McNair-Wilson

Can the Minister assure the House that there will be no crisis in solid smokeless fuel next winter?

Mr. Williams

We do not expect any crisis. As we have said, we expect that the position will be one of a tightness of supply. There has been a tightness of supply this winter, too.

Mr. Allaun

To what extent will my. hon. Friend act to slow down the closure of gas works and speed up the opening of plants producing smokeless coal? If there is still not enough of such coal, could he relax the local smoke prevention orders temporarily?

Mr. Williams

The relaxation of smoke control orders is the responsibility of the Ministry of Housing and Local Government. New production of gas coke is not very likely. The more likely alternative is a change to the production of different types of smokeless fuel. As my right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General announced in the debate on the Second Reading of the Coal Industry Bill, he is looking at the question of gas works closures in conjunction with the Gas Council. I should warn the House that there are certain doubts about the methods by which a slowing down of closures could be financed.

Sir Frank Pearson

Is the Minister aware that the north-west area is likely to face next winter a shortage of about half a million tons of smokeless fuels, and that there is very little that he can do to make up that shortage? Will he therefore give further consideration to the suggestion of his hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) that we should allow bituminous fuel to be burned in certain smokeless zones?

Mr. Williams

The suspension of orders is the responsibility of the Ministry of Housing and Local Government. There are several Questions on the North-West later on the Order Paper which we should reach in the next few minutes, and it would be unfair on those hon. Members who have tabled them if I dealt with the earlier part of the hon. Gentleman's question.

Mr. Fred Evans

Is my hon. Friend aware of the very deep anger felt in Wales in a coalfield where anthracite mines are being closed at an incredibly fast rate whilst we are exporting duff washed from anthracite tips to France to get the product back as briquettes?

Mr. Williams

I fully appreciate my hon. Friend's point that inevitably there must he a certain recrimination, but he must bear in mind that the question of the production of that anthracite from the mines had to be seen in conjunction with the prices at which it could eventually be sold. Many of those pits were closed either because they were ceasing to be viable units in the economic sense or because they had to run into depletion problems. As to the export of anthracite duff and its reintroduction as briquettes, in so far as this creates a market for the anthracite duff, which is very difficult to use in its existing form, I should have thought that this would have been welcomed by the miners.

Dr. Winstanley

Does the Minister recall that in the debate to which he referred his right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General told the House that it would be ludicrous to suggest that existing supplies of solid smokeless fuel were not adequate to meet existing needs? In view of the present very serious shortage, when will the right hon. Gentleman come here to explain why he found it necessary to mislead us on this very important and serious matter?

Mr. Williams

I strongly resent the suggestion that my right hon. Friend has in any way calculatedly misled the hon. Gentleman or other hon. Members.

An Hon. Member

where is he?

Mr. Williams

My right hon. Friend was here for the Second Reading of the Coal Industry Bill on 9th April and dealt with these very points. One could legitimately ask hon. Members where they were then.

58. Mr. Tilney

asked the Minister of Technology what steps he is taking to ease the shortage of smokeless fuel in the North-West; whether he is satisfied with the supply of fuels of all kinds for household consumers in the North-West: and if he will make a statement.

66. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the latest situation regarding the supply of smokeless fuel in the North-West now and next winter.

69. Mr. McCann

asked the Minister of Technology what steps he is taking to alleviate the shortage of solid smokeless fuels in the North-West before the winter; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Alan Williams

I would refer to the reply I gave on 15th April to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton, West (Mr. Oakes) in respect of solid smokeless fuels. There should be ample supplies of other smokeless fuels.—[Vol. 799, c. 259.]

Mr. Tilney

Is the Minister aware that many on Merseyside have the greatest difficulty in getting smokeless fuel now, and some in the "smoky" zones are having difficulty even in getting coal?

Mr. Williams

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says about difficulties. Neither I nor my right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General has ever denied that localised difficulties will arise in a situation where demand and supply at a national level are evenly poised.

Mr. Allaun

Is my hon. Friend aware that we in the North-West greatly appreciate the reprieve of three North-Western gas works? But they will produce only 66,000 tons of smokeless fuel a year, which is by no means enough. Will my hon. Friend therefore consider the plan for opening quickly an N.C.B. plant to produce smokeless coal, as the northwest area of the National Union of Mineworkers request?

Mr. Williams

I am fully aware of the suggestion that there should be such an extra plant. There are various plans in hand for new productive capacity, but any decision taken now on completely productive capacity could not be of help next winter. That is the difficulty of this approach. Therefore, the measures which I have outlined are those which will be beneficial in the short term.

Sir J. Eden

What estimate has been made of the cost of keeping gas works open for longer than planned, and who is to pay? Has the hon. Gentleman reexamined the machinery for consultation between his Department and the Ministry of Housing and Local Government to ensure that the right hand knows what the left hand is up to?

Mr. Williams

The right hand and the left hand are on very good terms. The cost of keeping gas works open varies very much with the individual works and its state of repair. Many are quite dilapidated in anticipation of phasing out. As I told the hon. Gentleman in our consideration of the Gas Bill in Committee, we have had figures ranging from £6 to £18 a ton; I recollect one instance of £20 a ton. In the three gas works to which my hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) referred the average cost would be about £6 a ton. I mentioned earlier that the House should be warned that there are difficulties about the means for financing this form of deferment. We are discussing with the Gas Council precisely how it will be done.

Mr. Dan Jones

Is my hon. Friend aware that I have evidence in my possession of the closure of gas works 12 months in advance of the scheduled programme? I invite him to look at that evidence with me.

Mr. Williams

My hon. Friend and any other hon. Member is free to put in evidence which he finds and I will gladly look at it. But I do not think that this is the major factor in the shortfall which hon. Members find in certain localities as between demand and supply. The major factor in the situation is that certain production plans have not been fulfilled.