HC Deb 13 April 1970 vol 799 cc1012-3
27. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is his estimate of the cost to the national insurance funds in a full year of giving credits for flat rate contributions to all occupational pensioners deprived of entitlement to unemployment benefit by his forthcoming Order.

Mr. Ennals

The income forgone might be about £500,000 a year.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Does it follow from that answer that there is no financial objection to amending the Order now before Parliament so as to minimise the hardships which will be caused if these people are deprived both of benefits and of credits for contribution?

Mr. Ennals

It is always interesting to hear right hon. and hon. Gentleman from the Opposition urging that we should have a larger allocation of public expenditure. But I remind the right hon. Gentleman that this provision does not concern those occupational pensioners who are below the age of 60 or who do not have a pension of £25 a week or more. There is, therefore, no question of hardship. But the right hon. Gentleman may care to catch Mr. Speaker's eye when the Order is debated.

Mr. Marks

Will my hon. Friend give an estimate of the savings to the National Insurance Fund in respect of the payment of unemployment benefit to many people whose pensions are far greater than the average earnings?

Mr. Ennals

I am grateful to the hon. Member. Our estimate is that about £3 million will be saved for the National Insurance Fund by this very wise measure.

Mr. Dean

While I recognise that some changes are needed, may I ask the Minister whether he realises that there is very strong opposition to the introduction of an occupational pension means test?

Mr. Ennals

There have been representations, but the hon. Member is aware that the Government have gone a very long way to meet the representations which were originally made following the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee. We have greatly softened the effect of these proposals, and most of the organisations which then made representations have welcomed the steps taken by the Government.