§ Q6. Mr. Winnickasked the Prime Minister what further consultations he is having with the Prime Ministers of the European Economic Community countries regarding British application to join the European Economic Community.
§ The Prime MinisterI would refer to what my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary said in reply to Questions by the hon. Members for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall), Banbury (Mr. Marten), and Chigwell (Mr. Biggs-Davison) last Monday.—[Vol. 788, c. 3–9.]
§ Mr. WinnickWould my right hon. Friend agree that it is only at the nego- 602 tiating table, if negotiations do start again, that we shall be in a position to judge whether the conditions of entry are such that we should join? Would he also agree that if we again apply or reactivate our present application and it does not get anywhere, it may well be the last time for many years that we shall try to enter the Six? We cannot keep on trying to enter a community that does not want us.
§ The Prime MinisterIt is certainly true that it is only when negotiations begin that the Government and this House and the British people can see whether the kind of terms that are likely to develop from those negotiations are acceptable. That is the position understood by all parties in this House, including those who are enthusiastic for entry and those who are less enthusiastic.
There is no question of reactivating the application. The application is on the table. There has so far been no common response by the Six to say that they are prepared to enter into negotiations. When they state that they are ready we shall be ready too. I agree with my hon. Friend that the final judgment cannot be made until we see the kind of terms made.
§ Mr. HeathCan the Prime Minister tell us when he will present a White Paper to the House giving the result of the new calculations which he revealed recently he commissioned some weeks ago, and which he successfully disguised from the House?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is very pathetic. The House was not meeting when this instruction was given for these figures to be prepared. I did not think it worth while calling the right hon. Gentleman and other hon. Gentlemen back here specially to announce that fact. However, I see that he shares my enthusiasm for the fact that it was the right thing to do. As soon as the figures are ready in a meaningful form, I will make them available to the House.
§ The Prime MinisterI will come to "when" in a moment. I have not said that it will be one White Paper. It may be several. It will be issued in whatever is the most convenient way—[Interruption.] Yes, or a debate.. We have done 603 it in various ways in the past. As I say, it will be done in whatever is the most convenient way from the point of view of the House, but it will be done.
As to when, it will take a few weeks. I hope that it will be before the House breaks up for the Christmas Recess.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisHas the Prime Minister seen the recent official statement that one of the conditions would be that we should have to share our atomic secrets? If that is the case, would it mean that Germany would be included? Does he feel that would be welcome to the people of this country?
§ The Prime MinisterI am not sure that my hon. Friend read the obiter dictum by the Commission on the question of nuclear affairs. It was talking about civil nuclear matters, not military nuclear matters, because of an exchange with Euratom. There is nothing in the Treaty of Rome, and there is nothing in the treaty governing Euratom, to say that this is required. We do not accept that there is any obligation of that kind. On the other hand, joining a community which will become increasingly technological, we shall expect to exchange some of our technological ideas with Europe in return for theirs. That is what the whole matter is about. It does not mean any automatic implication in nuclear policy.
§ Mr. Gwynfor EvansWill the Prime Minister bear in mind that, whatever the effects of entry in Europe, for Wales to enter while she is still a part of England and without a Government of her own—[Laughter.] The House has never taken Wales seriously. For Wales to enter while she is still part of England, without a Government of her own, would be economically disastrous because of the consequences of the movement to the east of the island's centre of economic gravity. Is he aware that this move will be strongly resisted in Wales?
§ The Prime MinisterIt would be economically disastrous for Wales to attempt to stand on her own either inside or outside the Common Market. None knows this better than the hon. Member when he really applies his mind to the matter.
If negotiations disclose conditions for entry which appear satisfactory to the 604 Government and this House, they will be satisfactory for Wales as for other areas represented in this House. If they are considered satisfactory by the House, we shall go in with or without the hon. Member.
§ Mr. HeathWill the Prime Minister recognise that from his recent statement the House had been led to expect a survey of statistics and calculations in regard to agricultural prices, balance of payments, cost of living, sterling, and so on, which is much more than can be included in a statement to the House or a statement made during a debate. The House expects from the Government at least a White Paper setting out the matter in full which we can study before any debate.
§ The Prime MinisterAll I have said is that this has not been decided. If the House wants a White Paper, or a series of White Papers, then we shall be ready to meet the wishes of the House. On the last occasion we discussed this, I said that I was not sure what form it would take. A lot of information was given in the three-day debate; we have produced four White Papers as well. If it is convenient to the House, it will be done in one White Paper or more than one. It will be done.
§ Mr. ShinwellIn those moments of meditation which are available to my right hon. Friend, does he ever reflect on the unwisdom of pressing forward with this matter before the next General Election, in defiance of a large section of public opinion, thereby incurring a risk of defeat?
§ The Prime MinisterI do have a fair amount of time for reflection about this matter and other matters which at various times have exercised the mind of my right hon. Friend. What we are faced with here is the question of negotiations. I have heard very few suggestions, either in the House or in any of the gatherings held on the South Coast recently, that there should be no attempt to go forward with negotiations. In all those three gatherings some said "Be very careful what you do when you get there, and do not accept terms which would involve this, that or the other." My right hon. Friend will realise that what we are talking about is entering 605 into negotiations. We are ready to enter them as soon as those who are concerned are ready. As to the outcome and timing of the negotiations, this will depend on a large number of matters outside our own control, in the sense that we shall be negotiating with six other countries.
§ Mr. ThorpeI share the view that the fullest possible information should be given to the public, but in order to protect the Prime Minister from giving a promise which he might find difficult to fulfil, may I ask him to say how any figures could be meaningful until after the completion of the first phase of the Treaty of Rome, which will be at the end of this year, and after the renegotiation of the agricultural policy, which may not be until the middle of next year?
§ The Prime MinisterThis was the problem to which both my right hon. Friend and I referred in the House before the Recess. If one reads the statement issued by the Commission—I believe it appeared in the Press only yesterday—the Commission said that there would have to be some changes in agricultural policy, and also laid down, on its own responsibility, certain views about what could or could not be expected of Britain in relation to agricultural obligations. No White Paper or other statement could possibly prejudge or forecast what will happen in the Six on agriculture. That is why I have asked the studies which I have commissioned to be based on a number of different possible assumptions about what may happen to agricultural prices, because they will affect not only the balance of payments but also Britain's budgetary contribution and other matters. There are various assumptions about that, just as different assumptions have to be made in the matter of capital movements and trade.