HC Deb 24 November 1969 vol 792 cc23-8
35 and 36. Mr. Doig

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (1) if he is aware that an effective dog repellant is now being manufactured in Great Britain which does not require any change in the Firearms Act, 1968; and if he will now give a general direction to the Post Office to supply this to postmen who request it;

(2) if he will give a general direction to the Post Office to abolish or modify the telephone installation charge for users who move to another house.

37. Mr. Atkinson

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board that 4d. and 5d. mail should not be separately sorted on Fridays.

38. Mr. Moonman

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will indicate the number of people who have taken out a Giro account; and what the current financial position is.

43. Mr. Ashton

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board regarding the siting of post offices and the services to be provided by existing post offices

53. Mr. Crouch

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office Board to issue commemorative stamps on the occasions of the anniversary of English saints.

54. Mr. Dudley Smith

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board to discontinue their policy of abandoning postmarks for individual towns in favour of larger groupings where those towns have a significant cultural and historic interest, and are valuable as part of the country's tourist industry.

The Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (Mr. John Stonehouse)

With permission, I will answer this Question and Questions Nos. 36, 37, 38, 43, 53 and 54 together.

No, Sir; these are matters for the Post Office.

Mr. Speaker

Order. It helps the Chair to know in advance which Questions are being answered together.

Mr. Doig

On Question No. 35, is my right hon. Friend aware that this is one of the reasons why difficulty has arisen in recruitment? Is he aware that in other countries postmen can have these repellants? Will he not reconsider his decision?

Mr. Stonehouse

My hon. Friend has established a reputation as an expert in the problems of repelling dogs, and I know that the Post Office will respect his view and take note of it.

Mr. Atkinson

May I insist that my right hon. Friend gives a decent answer to Questions as they appear on the Order Paper? It is not good enough to lump them together in this way and attempt to score a political point when he knows that the argument concerning the corporation is still proceeding? Is my right hon. Friend aware that in many areas there are no Saturday morning deliveries, and, at best, there are some areas in which there is a delivery on alternate Saturday mornings? Therefore, if both the 4d. and the 5d. post are delivered simultaneously on a Monday morning, what benefit does a person who uses the service get from using a 5d. stamp on a Friday?

Mr. Stonehouse

It was the decision of Parliament that the operational details of running the postal service should be transferred to a corporation. It was so transferred on 1st October. It is, therefore, up to the Post Office, and not for me, to consider the proposals now being put forward.

Mr. Doig

On a point of order. As my two Questions were on quite different subjects but the Minister's answer did not cover them, am I now entitled, Mr. Speaker, to put a supplementary on the second Question?

Mr. Speaker

No. There is no such entitlement.

Mr. Atkinson

On a point of order. Am I not entitled to an answer to my Question, Mr. Speaker, if it has been accepted for the Order Paper?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman is entitled to an answer. The Minister is entitled to answer the Question in the way he chooses. That is a matter for the Minister.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

Further to the point of order—

Mr. Stonehouse

May I make it quite clear, for the benefit of those who did not hear, that my answer to each of these Questions was, "No, Sir"? I do not propose to give a general direction in the particular case requested. That was the Answer also to Questions No. 36, 37, 38. 43, 53 and 54.

Mr. Rankin

On a point of order. May I draw attention to the Ministers previous answer defining his position? If he has been appointed Minister of Posts, Mr. Speaker, ought he not to answer, or be liable to answer, Questions dealing with the posting of letters?

Mr. Speaker

The right hon. Gentleman's answer was perfectly in order. That is all I am concerned about.

Mr. Prior

Would it not be a courtesy to the House at least to let hon. Members know that their Questions will not be answered, so that they need not come here and wait for that service? Second, on Question No. 38, surely the Minister can indicate the number of people who have opened a Giro account. Surely that is something which we could be told without all this fuss.

Mr. Stonehouse

In its Report each year, the Post Office gives the number of Giro accounts. If I were to accept that an answer had to be given concerning the number of individual accounts every time a Member put down such a Question, this would interfere with the detailed operation of the Giro service by the Post Office, which acts in competition with other banking organisations. This House made a decision that the business of the Post Office should be run as a corporation and it is now my responsibility, as the Minister sponsoring the Post Office, to ensure that it is subjected to no more cross-examination on its operational details than is any other public authority.

Mr. Moonman

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, had he not attempted to lump all these answers together, it is possible that he could have answered my Question No. 38 about the Giro account? Is he further aware that it will disturb many hon. Members if he persists in this sort of reply? Will he either mutter or think aloud, even if he cannot give the answer, as to what he is doing about publicity and public relations in order to build up the Giro service? Failing to answer here will not help the publicity.

Mr. Stonehouse rose

—

Mr. Atkinson

Before my right hon. Friend answers that question, may I raise a point of order, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Speaker

Raising points of order holds up Question Time. The hon. Gentleman has had a good run already.

Mr. Atkinson

I realise that, Mr. Speaker, but it is the Minister who is interfering more with Question Time than I am by points of order. I have put a legitimate Question on the Order Paper and hon. Members have a right to expect a reasonable reply from a Minister. If he is not prepared to give the House a reply to a Question, he should no longer remain a Minister.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I have ruled on that point of order already. No Minister is bound to please an hon. Member with his answer.

Mr. Crouch

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker. I protest most strongly that the Minister, coming here this afternoon with barely 15 minutes in which to answer Questions, has lumped together half-a-dozen on which he is not prepared to give an answer. Whether I, by my point of order, prevent other hon. Members getting answers or not, I submit that we have witnessed a grave reflection on the Minister's approach to this House and I beg you to consider the matter.

Mr. Speaker

The Chair has considered all that has happened but what has happened is in order. Mr. Crouch.

Mr. Crouch rose

—

Mr. Moonman

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, my supplementary did not receive an answer from the Minister, in whatever form he cares to put it, because of points of order. I have a right to a supplementary answer.

Mr. Stonehouse

The Giro business is a matter directly for the Board of the Post Office Corporation, which has this matter well in hand. It would not be appropriate for me, when Parliament has decided to put the commercial operations of the Post Office into the hands of the board, to attempt to answer on details about which the corporation is directly concerned.

Mr. Crouch rose

—

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Crouch—supplementary question. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that his Question was answered with No. 35. Does he wish to put a supplementary question?

Mr. Crouch

I was not aware that I was being called for a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, but if I am I would put it to the Minister that I am concerned that he should take note of the fact that there is festival taking place in this country next year—the Becket Festival, commemorating the eighth hundredth anniversary. If it is possible for the right hon. Gentleman to give a general direction to the new department to issue a special anniversary stamp, he has surely the right to give this matter such consideration. I ask him, therefore, to give special consideration now to this question.

Mr. Stonehouse

I had given consideration to this matter and I have decided that it would not be appropriate for me to use the weapon of a general direction in this case.

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Kenneth Baker—Question No. 40.

Mr. Kenneth Baker rose

—

Mr. Eadie

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. What Question are we at now?

Mr. Speaker

As in the case of similar nationalised boards, the hon. Gentleman will learn which Questions he can ask by grim experience.

Mr. Eadie rose

—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman can raise his point of order at the end of Question Time.

Mr. Eadie

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Lubbock

Not in Question Time.

Mr. Eadie

I have been in the Chamber all the time. It is not a question of experience but of hearing. I asked you, Mr. Speaker, what Question we are at.

Mr. Speaker

We are at Question No. 40.