HC Deb 24 November 1969 vol 792 cc14-5
22. Mr. Bitten

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the estimated number of employees currently covered by occupational pension schemes; what percentage this represents of the total number of employees; and what has been the estimated growth in numbers covered by occupational pension arrangements during the past five years.

Mr. Ennals

The latest available estimates relate to the end of 1967, when about 12,200,000 employees, representing 52 per cent. of all employees, were members of occupational pension schemes. Over the previous four years membership had increased by 1.1 million.

Mr. Biffen

As the Leader of the House has indicated that there may be a third White Paper on the Government's superannuation scheme, would this not be a suitable occasion for a timely repentance by the hon. Member and his Ministry? Will they authorise only that kind of Government scheme which will encourage this welcome growth in occupational schemes?

Mr. Ennals

I want first to make it clear that there have been three White Papers already concerning the new scheme. The first, published in January, set out the general terms. The second, dealing with the short-term benefits, was published in July. The third, published two or three weeks ago, dealt with the partially contracted-out terms. When the Bill is published there will be another White Paper, as an Explanatory Memorandum accompanying it. As to the hon. Member's main supplementary question, it would be absurd for the Government not to go boldly forward to decide that we must provide much better social security provisions for those who have no occupational pension to depend upon, and to adjust our provisions so as to enable us to work in close partnership with occupational schemes.

Mr. Molloy

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of the direct and surreptitious attacks coming from hon. Members opposite are born either because of a touching on that remote phenomenon—the Tory conscience—or because they are jealous of what we are doing? Will my hon. Friend continue in this way to assure 12 million of our people that when they retire they will be cared for and looked after and not ignored as they were by the party opposite?

Mr. Ennals

My hon. Friend has obviously a much clearer understanding of the Conservative viewpoint on this matter than I have. I am anxiously awaiting the day when the Conservative Party can explain just what it does think on this extremely important question.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

In view of what the hon. Gentleman has said in answer to this and an earlier Question, about what happened under a previous Administration, is he aware that under that Administration pensioners received substantially larger increase than are guaranteed by his right hon. Friend's proposals?

Mr. Ennals

As the House knows, the increases under the present Government have helped to raise the real value of the pension, and under the new scheme not only will existing pensioners be guaranteed a share in the rising standard of living but new pensioners will be able to take full advantage of the new scheme.

Lord Balniel

Why does the Minister avoid answering the questions put to him? Is it not a fact that the rise in the real purchasing power of the pension under the Conservative Administration was over 50 per cent., whereas the rise under the present Government, including the recent increase, is 20 per cent?

Mr. Ennals

We have had only five years in office, and the noble Lord and his party had 13 years. I can assure him that by the time my Government have been in power for 13 years we shall have a very proud record.