Sheep

HC Deb 05 November 1969 vol 790 cc984-5

1. Mr. Stodart

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food why the size of the sheep flock continues to fall; and what steps he proposes to take to reverse this trend.

12. Mr. Farr

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food by what amount home sheep production has fallen in the past four years; and what new steps he is taking to arrest the decline.

15. Mr. Jopling

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he is taking to restore the reduction of sheep numbers in the country during the last year.

The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Cledwyn Hughes)

In recent years the sheep flock has fallen. This reduction has been accentuated this year by losses due to bad weather. Output was 22,000 tons lower in 1968–69 than in 1964–65. Our objective is to check and offset the decline in production.

Mr. Stodart

Does the Minister recall his advocacy of shifting the sheep flock back to the hills? Is he aware that there is considerable anxiety in the farming community about hill farms being taken over for afforestation? Is not this making a complete nonsense of his whole policy?

Mr. Hughes

The afforestation policy is quite another matter. If the hon. Gentleman will table a Question on that matter, I will answer it. The aim is for some longer-term shift to upland areas where sheep are good users of grazing. We are anxious to see the sheep flock maintained at a reasonable level, above the present level.

Mr. Farr

Was the statement made last month in New Zealand by the Permanent Secretary to the Ministry that we had no intention of expanding home production authorised by the Minister?

Mr. Hughes

The Permanent Secretary was setting out the basis of the selective expansion programme announced last November. The hon. Gentleman is not right to assume that this means that we do not want to make up sheep losses since the selective expansion programme was announced.

>Mr. Jopling

Does the Minister recall that the breeding flock has been reducing since 1965 and that the "Little Neddy" warned the Minister that this was happening and said that expansion should take place? Have not the Minister's measures at the last Price Review been shown to be totally inadequate?

Mr. Hughes

The measures at the two last reviews were reasonable ones. The industry's needs will require to be carefully examined at the next Review in view of the losses of the recent winter.

Mr. Godber

Arising out of Minister's second supplementary answer, will he make it clear that he is not placing any ceiling on production of sheep in Britain? It would be monstrous if he were seeking to do that, but that is the impression I gained from his reply.

Mr. Hughes

There was no intention to fix a rigid ceiling. The selective expansion programme did not envisage an increase in mutton and lamb production. As I said before, the position is now different, because we are below last year's production level.

Mr. Manuel

Is it not much more economic to consider upland areas, where a very large acreage indeed is necessary to sustain any reasonable growth of sheep, for forestry purposes?

Mr. Hughes

This is an arguable question. I repeat that a Question should be tabled on the question of forestry, because that is a separate issue. There should be no conflict between the needs of forestry and those of agriculture in upland areas. We have achieved a position where there is an understanding between the industry and the Forestry Commission.

Mr. Farr

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.