§ Mr. SpeakerMr. St. John-Stevas. To raise a point of order.
§ Mr. St. John-StevasMr. Speaker, I wish to raise a point of order of which I have given you notice. It arises out of Question Time yesterday, when I addressed a Question to the Secretary of State for Social Services on the working of the Abortion Act.
It was then put to the Secretary of State by the hon. Member for Manchester, Exchange (Mr. Will Griffiths) that in a widely publicised statement I had said that thousands of foreign women were flocking to London to use the facilities of the National Health Service made available by the abortion law. That statement was made without any attempt to check the facts, and I was rebuked by the Secretary of State for making it.
Owing to the manner in which the matter was raised I had no opportunity to defend myself. I have never made any such statement, either inside this House or outside it, and I seek your guidance as to how this kind of injustice can be remedied within the rules of order of the House.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member is entitled to seek my private advice, as he did this morning, but he will appreciate that guidance from the Chair on how to raise matters during the course of future proceedings in the House cannot be dealt with by question and answer now. The personal explanation which the hon. Member sought my permission to make would, in my view, inevitably have led to controversy, and, consequently, to an irregular debate.
In those circumstances, I could not allow it, and that is as far as the Chair can go without being drawn into an argument which would be wholly out of order this afternoon. The hon. Member will find the rules and guidance on personal statements at page 373 in the current edition of Erskine May.
§ Sir A. V. HarveyFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Could not this matter be concluded if the Minister responsible apologised to my hon. Friend?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. and gallant Member must not seek to draw the Chair into matters of controversy between hon. Members.
§ Mr. SpeakerI was hoping that we could proceed.
§ Mr. OrmeI know. The hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas) was in the House yesterday, as I was, when this exchange took place with the Minister. The hon. Gentleman made no effort to repudiate the statement, and I suggest that as he did not attempt to correct it then he has no right to do so now.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. If the hon. Member reads tomorrow the Ruling that I have just made, he will see that we cannot enter by question and answer on a controversial topic like this at this moment.
§ Mr. Will GriffithsFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. As the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas) has mentioned me, I should like to say, first, that during the years I have been in the House I have never known such a procedure as has been employed today, inasmuch as I was not informed by the hon. Gentleman that he intended to raise this matter today.
Mr. GriffithsSecond, hon. Members join in the exchanges and debates and put supplementary questions, and what I said yesterday was based upon my recollection of an interview which the hon. Gentleman gave on B.B.C. radio in the "World at One". Had the hon. Gentleman done me the courtesy of informing me of his objection—and I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Salford, West (Mr. Orme) that the hon. Gentleman made no attempt to raise this matter yesterday—I should certainly have looked at the transcript of the programme, and, as is the custom of the House, if I had done the hon. Gentleman an injustice then those who know me know that I should have had the good grace to withdraw what I said.
§ Mr. St. John-Stevasrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Even Mr. Speaker has the right to speak.
The exchanges that are taking place at the moment show just how wise Erskine May is in the Rulings and the advice that it gives on personal statements and in the discretion that it gives to Mr. Speaker not to allow them if he thinks they are controversial.
§ Mr. St. John-StevasFurther to that last point of order, Mr. Speaker. I entirely accept your Ruling, but may I say that at half-past ten this morning I rang the secretary to the hon. Member for Manchester, Exchange (Mr. Will Griffiths) to inform the hon. Gentleman that I intended raising this matter with you. I also wrote a letter to the hon. Gentleman, which I left on the Letter Board before luncheon, so that he should be present. I do not wish to pursue the matter further. I am satisfied that my point has been made.
§ Mr. Will GriffithsMr. Speaker, I apologise to you and to the House. I just want to record as a matter of fact and truth that I have just walked into the Chamber and I have been given two letters from the Board. Neither of them is from the hon. Gentleman, and I have received no message of any kind. I am not accusing the hon. Gentleman, but I owe it to myself and to my hon. Friends to record all I know to be the truth as I understand it.
§ Mr. SpeakerThere is obviously a failure in communication between the two hon. Members. The House accepts in good faith the words of each of the two hon. Members.