HC Deb 15 May 1969 vol 783 cc1630-1
53. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will seek to set up a Royal Commission to inquire into the pay and conditions of all nursing staff in National Health Service hospitals.

The Secretary of State for Social Services (Mr. Richard Crossman)

No, Sir.

Mr. Hamilton

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that reply is not altogether surprising? Does he recognise that there are a series of problems within the nursing profession as to pay and conditions which were not resolved by the Prices and Incomes Board, and it would seem to be a highly satisfactory solution to set up a Royal Commission to inquire into the status, service, conditions and pay of the entire nursing profession to allay the anxieties that are very widespread and particularly evidenced today?

Mr. Crossman

From our experience of Royal Commission I should have thought that those nurses who feel that they have grievances and are anxious to have speedy treatment of them would be dubious of the speed with which a Royal Commission would work.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that only last week he was very sympathetic towards this problem? Has he changed since? Does he not think that unless something is done very rapidly the whole of the Health Service will be driven into the ground? This is rapidly happening, and surely it is up to him to do something about it very quickly.

Mr. Crossman

I remind the hon. Gentleman that the agreement which was reached was based on a report from the National Board for Prices and Incomes and the second part of it has only just been implemented. It is my impression that most of the agreement is regarded as an acceptable pattern, and that the dissatisfaction is almost exclusively concerned with the problems of the younger student nurses, and, in particular, with the problem of charges for their meals. This is now under my most active consideration. I would agree with the hon. Gentleman that there is a genuine sense of grievance here. I have always said this. I am anxious that we should maintain our present very competent negotiating machinery, and yet deal adequately with this grievance.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

Is my right hon. Friend really satisfied with the pay and conditions of nurses? Does he not think that it is a national disgrace? What would he do if nurses were a little less public-spirited and started a strike?

Mr. Crossman

I am never satisfied with the pay and conditions of any of the groups in the Health Service, and I should like them all improved. I would remind my hon. Friend that nurses' pay was radically improved, including the pay of student nurses, which went up by between 9 per cent. and 14 per cent. I do not think my hon. Friend ought to jump to the conclusion that the whole package is wrong.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Goodhew

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman will know that he has precluded other hon. Members from putting questions, at a time which was most convenient, on what some hon. Members regard as a rather important matter.