HC Deb 12 May 1969 vol 783 cc969-70
33 and 41. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) what representations he has received in the last month concerning the operation of the pay-as-you-eat scheme for hospital nurses; and what steps have been taken to remedy the grievances of nurses on this matter;

(2) what steps he has taken to ensure that all National Health Service hospitals have a scale of meal charges which are within the capacity of all student and other nurses to pay.

Mr. Crossman

The representations have been about the adequacy of the reduction in the former board and lodging charge to enable meals to be paid for as taken. Many of them have been based on misunderstandings, but the Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council is considering certain problems which have arisen in the introduction of the new arrangements; and my Department has written to all hospital authorities asking them to ensure that meals are provided at the standard charges on which the arrangements are based.

Mr. Hamilton

Would my right hon. Friend say what he meant in his Answer by the phrase "based on misunderstandings"? Did he read the article in yesterday's Sunday Times which presented a disturbing picture of student nurses having to work 20 to 24 hours in a day to make their wage into a living wage, and when does he expect to produce a report on this matter?

Mr. Crossman

I did not read the article in the Sunday Times. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for calling it to my attention. The representations were not about the package as a whole, but about the arrangements for meals. The rest of the package was broadly accepted.

Mr. Dean

Can the Minister explain how the arrangements about meals have gone so badly wrong? Surely the management side of the Whitley Council is responsible to him and takes its instructions from his Department?

Mr. Crossman

I am prepared straight away to say that of course my Department has a large degree of responsibility in these matters, as does the Prices and Incomes Board, too, since this was a discussion of proposals from the Board. I am not yet convinced that the whole proposal has gone wrong. On the contrary, I believe that it is what the nurses wanted; they had asked for it for years. The difficulty is whether it is valid and satisfactory for all student nurses in all hospitals. One of our difficulties is the extraordinary variations in hospital meals served in different hospitals. This is what we have tried to regularise by the letter which has been sent out to hospital boards.

Mr. Whitaker

Surely it is in the public interest to correct the income structure of this country so that it should be more generous to people such as nurses, who do such a valuable job and never go on strike?

Mr. Crossman

I agree with my hon Friend. That is why I was pleased that the last pay package was a generous one which greatly improved their standing and their pay.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Unless something is done about this matter, in many cases nurses who work on night shifts will go short of food. This will be a big setback to recruitment. Will the Minister ask the Whitley Council to reconsider the matter before more damage is done?

Mr. Crossman

I again will explain that the Whitley Council is meeting tomorrow. It has a number of proposals to consider. Therefore, before we discuss the matter further, we ought to wait and see what it concludes.