HC Deb 09 May 1969 vol 783 cc887-90
Mr. Farr

I beg to move Amendment No. 12, in page 2, line 18, leave out from beginning to 'unless' in line 28 and insert: (1) In the Diseases of Animals Act 1950 there shall be inserted after section 40 the following section:— Restriction on Export of Registered Ponies 40A.—(1) It shall not be lawful to ship, or attempt to ship, a registered pony in any vessel from any port in Great Britain to any port outside the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man

Mr. Deputy Speaker

With this Amendment we may discuss the following Amendments: No. 14, in line 36, leave out from 'inspector' to second 'or' in line 38, No. 15, in line 39, leave out 'said', No. 16, in line 42, leave out from 'section' to second 'the' in line 43, No. 18, in page 3, line 5, at end insert: (2) In section 41 of the said Act of 1950 (enforcement of provisions as to shipment of horses) for the words 'four last foregoing sections', wherever they occur, there shall be substituted the words 'five last foregoing sections', and No. 19, in page 3, line 6, leave out Clause 4.

Mr. Farr

The purpose of Amendment No. 12 is consolidation. Lines 18 to 28 are already incorporated in Clause 1 to which the House has already given approval. I turn to Amendment No. 14. The Clause refers to any constable or any inspector appointed for the purposes of the Act of 1950 by the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food or the local authority.… We understand that the Minister is not anxious to take upon his shoulders any responsibility relating to the purpose of this part of the Clause. Therefore, at his request, we propose to leave out these words so that the export certificate in respect of a registered pony shall be produced on demand by the master of a ship, not to an officer of the Ministry, but to a constable or any inspector appointed by a local authority.

Amendment No. 17 was tabled at the request of those responsible for these matters. The General Stud Book is not a society—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman misheard me. Amendment No. 17 is to be discussed on its own later.

Mr. Farr

I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Amendment No. 18 is a drafting Amendment. Amendment No. 19 recommends that Clause 4 be omitted. Clause 4 is the enforcement Clause. We heard in Committee that enforcement will rely upon existing legislation with a slight amendment. I wonder whether the penalties in the existing legislation are adequate. I fear, particularly as Clause 1 has been amended, that there will still be risks and temptations in the way of some exporters of ponies to try to contravene the admirable purpose of the Bill by methods known to them. The monetary reward and temptation are there. I would value the remarks of the Joint Parliamentary Secretary on this point.

1.15 p.m.

Mr. John Mackie

The hon. Member for Harborough (Mr. Farr) feels that the penalties might not be sufficient. We review the penalties over the years, and we shall consider them. They relate to the Diseases of Animals Act in general and the welfare Orders. It would be difficult to make penalties suit particular circumstances in which monetary reward was greater than in others. I know that there are great arguments about whether the penalty for stealing £2 million in a train robbery should be greater than for stealing a fiver in the House of Commons or elsewhere. We shall keep our eye on the penalties.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 13, in line 29, leave out second 'the' and insert 'a'.

No. 14, in line 36, leave out from 'inspector' to second 'or' in line 38.

No. 15, in line 39, leave out 'said'.

No. 16, in line 42, leave out from 'section' to second 'the' in line 43.—[Mr. Farr.]

Mr. Patrick McNair-Wilson

I beg to move Amendment No. 17, in page 2, line 44, to leave out 'the General Stud Book'.

It will be obvious from an examination of the Clause that the General Stud Book is wrongly placed in it. The General Stud Book is not a society, whereas the other bodies referred to in the Clause are. Ponies are normally registered with the appropriate societies.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 18, page 3, line 5, at end insert: (2) In section 41 of the said Act of 1950 (enforcement of provisions as to shipment of horses) for the words 'four last foregoing sections', wherever they occur, there shall be substituted the words 'five last foregoing sections'. No. 19, page 3, line 6, leave out Clause 4.—[Mr. Farr.]

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