HC Deb 17 March 1969 vol 780 cc6-8
10. Sir B. Rhys Williams

asked the Minister for the Civil Service whether he will reduce the qualifying period during which, if men leave the Civil Service, they forfeit all entitlement to pension.

Mr. George Thomson

I have been asked to reply.

This will be considered during the review of the Civil Service superannuation scheme in the light of the proposals for a new State earnings-related scheme and of the recommendations of the Fulton Committee.

Sir B. Rhys Williams

Do the Government accept the principle that a pension is a form of deferred pay?

Mr. Thomson

I should not like to launch myself on declarations of principle in my present rôle at the Dispatch Box. The Government's position is that these matters cannot be decided piecemeal. They are very well aware of the seriousness of the question.

Mr. Dobson

Will my right hon. Friend undertake to tell the Paymaster-General that many Members on this side of the House will be greatly disappointed if the informal discussions now proceeding on superannuation for the Civil Service do not include a very large measure of transferability of Civil Service pensions?

Mr. Thomson

As my hon. Friend will know, this all comes into the larger matters raised by the proposals put forward by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services, a principal feature of which is transferability of pensions.

11. Sir B. Rhys Williams

asked the Minister for the Civil Service whether he will amend the terms of the Civil Service pension scheme to permit men under 50 years of age who leave to take up employment outside the categories now approved for pensions transfer, to retain their full pension rights including the entitlement to a lump sum.

Mr. George Thomson

I have been asked to reply.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply of my right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General to his Question of 10th February, 1969.—[Vol. 777, c. 864.]

Sir B. Rhys Williams

If the Government acknowledge that this is an urgent problem, will they undertake to do something before 1972?

Mr. Thomson

I should not like to make commitments about the timetable. We recognise that it is an important problem, but equally it would not be helpful to deal with this and other problems connected with it on a piecemeal basis. It is important to carry through a comprehensive reorganisation of the pensions system of this country.

Sir E. Boyle

Did not the Fulton Committee lay special stress on the problem of civil servants who have given perfectly worthy service but may have run out of steam for one reason or other? Does he agree that this matter should receive pretty urgent consideration?

Mr. Thomson

We are aware of the importance the Fulton Committee laid on this question. I will draw my right hon. Friend's attention to what the right hon. Gentleman said.