§ Q4. Mr. Eldon Griffithsasked the Prime Minister what consultations he has had with Commonwealth heads of government about the effect on Commonwealth countries of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics' proposed new Asian security system.
§ The Prime MinisterWe are in continuing contact on such matters with the Commonwealth Governments concerned, through diplomatic channels.
§ Mr. GriffithsHas the Prime Minister seen the important Izvestia article which speaks of a vacuum of power in the Indian Ocean and Mr. Gromyko's statement to the Supreme Soviet that Russia is now ready to join with Asian states in building a security system? Since these developments vitally affect British interests, does he not think that they may be the result of the Government's policy of scuttle and run from East of Suez?
§ The Prime MinisterTaking, as I always do, the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question seriously—I shall come to the last part in a moment—I am grateful to him for drawing my attention to the Izvestia article, which I shall study. But, in addition to Mr. Gromyko's speech to the Supreme Soviet on 10th July, there was the basic speech by Mr. Brezhnev. I would interpret the Russian's concern and what they are saying on this matter to have been motivated not by the very wise decisions of Her Majesty's Government in that area but by their fear of the growing power of China.
§ Mr. RichardWould my right hon. Friend go a little further and say that in his opinion, and in the estimates of the Government, as long as the Soviet Union and China continue to pursue their present course the interest of the Soviet Union in Asia is primarily one of stability rather than the opposite and that any proposals by Russia about an Asian security conference or arrangement should be looked at by us and the West generally very seriously indeed?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is a difficult matter to deal with at Question Time. It is more appropriate for debate. I remember some debates on this point 2132 between the right hon. Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home) and myself several years ago. There is reason to think that not only in Asia but in Africa the Soviet Union has reason to fear growing intervention by China. If the Soviet Government have anything concrete to put forward which we could examine—so far everything that they have said has been in general terms—we shall be glad to examine it to see whether there is anything which can be done mutually to bring security in Africa and in Asia, just as we are ready to discuss with them their proposals for European security.
§ Mr. HeathIs it not difficult for Mr. Brezhnev or the Prime Minister to say that a vacuum has been created by the growing power of China?
§ The Prime MinisterI did not use that phrase. I think that it came from the other side of the House. Mr. Brezhnev may or may not have used it. I am not answerable for Mr. Brezhnev. He cannot be questioned by hon. Members, would assume, not having seen the full original text, that what he was saying was that where there is a vacuum of an ideological kind the Chinese are very quick to fill it. That is the serious point which no doubt the right hon. Gentleman would wish to reflect upon.
§ Mr. HeathIs it not a serious point that the British Government are creating the only vacuum in the Far East and that is the one which the Soviet Government are seeking to step into?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon Gentleman is quite wrong. It is a totally fanciful extension of anything that even he has said to suggest that anything which any British Government could do in that area would be capable of meeting either the military or the ideological and permeating threat of China.
§ Mr. ShinwellSurely my right hon. Friend does not suggest that, for example. the provision of vast quantities of arms from the Russians to the Arab States is not due to their fear of China but is attributable to their desire to intervene in any part of the world where they can cause trouble?
§ The Prime MinisterYes, but I was dealing with a Question which referred 2133 to an Asian security system, and, although it is certainly true that what we call the Middle East is known to India and other countries as West Asia, the context of the speeches by Mr. Gromyko and Mr. Brezhnev was in terms of South-East and Far East Asia, not the Middle East, which raises very different considerations, as my right hon. Friend has often made clear in the House.