Natural Gas

HC Deb 22 July 1969 vol 787 cc1460-4

1. Mr. Dudley Smith

asked the Minister of Power what percentage of the country has now been converted to natural gas; and what is the provisional date for the completion of this operation.

14. Mr. Lane

asked the Minister of Power whether he is satisfied with the progress of the natural gas conversion programme; and if he will make a statement.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Power (Mr. Reginald Freeson)

About 5 per cent. of consumers have now had their appliances converted. The programme is planned to be completed by 1977–78. There was some delay last year in the planned rate of build-up, but the gas industry is confident that the programme will be completed in this period.

Mr. Smith

Is the Ministry satisfied that the standard of conversion, which left so much to be desired in the first place, is now much improved? Is it still confident that natural gas is more efficient and effective than the old variety?

Mr. Freeson

On the first point, it would he wrong to generalise, as I think I have said to the hon. Gentleman before. There was a percentage of call-back and complaints. This is now reducing. I believe that the figure last year was 25 per cent. call-back, and it is now down to 22 per cent. I have reason to believe that it will continue in that direction.

Mr. Lane

I appreciate the helpfulness of the Chairman of the Eastern Gas Board and his staff, both in the conversion programme and in dealing with complaints, but is the Minister aware that there is great concern among many consumers about the increases in gas bills since conversion? Would he not agree that if natural gas is to be nationally acceptable, the confusion about charges must be cleared up urgently?

Mr. Freeson

Yes, Sir, and the confusion about charges would be helped it hon. Gentlemen were to spread the facts a little more often. There has been quite a number of Written Questions on the subject, in reply to which we have provided first-class information. Further information has been made available, and even more could be made available by the gas boards concerned, which could explain fully, as I am prepared to explain, the reasons for the increased gas bills for the consumption earlier this year.

Mr. Emery

Will the Minister consider this point yet again? The figures he has given in Parliamentary Answers in no way explain some of the major increases, and unless this matter is explained to consumers the success of conversion will be in doubt. We all want it to succeed, and the Minister has a duty here.

Mr. Freeson

And so have hon. Members. To some extent there is a stirring up of difficulty by hon. Members who are not prepared to make a little more effort in spreading full information.

An Hon. Member

That is a generalised slur.

Mr. Freeson

It is not a generalised slur. I have correspondence to prove this. We and the boards have been quite prepared to explain the position. If hon. Gentlemen wish to put down Questions, they will get factual Answers, and some of the Answers have explained the position to date.

20 and 21. Sir J. Gilmour

asked the Minister of Power (1) when he expects North Sea gas to be generally available in Scotland;

(2) what proportion of the gas supply in Scotland will be from sources other than North Sea gas once this is generally available to customers of the Scottish Gas Board.

Mr. Freeson

The trunk line should reach into Scotland in the spring of 1970. On present plans, one-quarter of the Board's customers will receive natural gas direct by 1974. The Board hopes to convert all except the outlying areas.

Sir J. Gilmour

Since Scottish gas prices are considerably above prices in England, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to say whether, as a result of this change, the price of gas in Scotland will come down to the same level as that in England?

Mr. Freeson

The bulk supply price or tariff for natural gas will be on a uniform basis throughout the country, but there will still be the influence of local costs in addition which will be decided by the boards.

Mr. Ashton

Can my hon. Friend say if, by the dates he mentioned, there will be introduced a national hydrocarbon corporation to control the marketing and leasing of North Sea gas?

Mr. Freeson

That is a different question.

Mr. Ashton

But a good one.

Mr. Freeson

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is an important issue, and I assure him that my right hon. Friend is studying it closely.

27. Mr. Dudley Smith

asked the Minister of Power how many complaints the West Midlands Gas Board has received from consumers about increased gas bills, following conversion to natural gas.

Mr. Freeson

I am informed that, since conversion started last year, about 3 per cent. of the 75,000 consumers so far converted to natural gas have raised complaints.

Mr. Smith

However much the hon. Gentleman and the gas board contend that natural gas does not cost the consumer more, is he aware that hundreds of my constituents know from personal experience that it does cost more? If the hon. Gentleman is right, will he explain why so many people are apparently labouring under such a serious misapprehension?

Mr. Freeson

One reason arises from what I said earlier; that hon. Members as well as Ministers and the industry have a responsibility in this matter. There is no evidence whatever to suggest that natural gas means higher costs for the consumer.

Mr. Emery

Would the hon. Gentleman make it clear to his right hon. Friend that the proposition which he propounds—that it is the Opposition's job to put forward Governmental or Gas Council policy—is absolutely incorrect?

Mr. Freeson

The hon. Gentleman is talking a piece of nonsense. I made no such suggestion. I said, and I repeat, that there is a responsibility on hon. Members as well as on Ministers and the industry to spread the facts and not to spread distortions.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Has the hon. Gentleman read the letter which I sent to his Department a month ago about 18 of my constituents at Congleton whose gas bills for natural gas have gone up by between 50 per cent. and 80 per cent.? Will the hon. Gentleman do something about these alarming increases?

Mr. Freeson

It would take a considerable time—I would be prepared to do so on a siutable occasion or perhaps by correspondence—to explain all the factors that have given rise in certain instances to rising bills as a result of consumption earlier this year. However, these factors had nothing whatever to do with natural gas conversions.