HC Deb 07 July 1969 vol 786 cc932-4
6. Mrs. Renée Short

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he has now made an assessment, in the light of the representations submitted to him, of the need for increased facilities under the National Health Service for the termination of pregnancies under the Abortion Act; and what action he intends to take to meet this need.

Mr. Crossman

It is still too soon to form an assessment of the adequacy or otherwise of National Health Service facilities. I am continuing to watch the position.

Mrs. Short

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, in view of the large number of case notes which I sent him recently, that it is clear that in some parts of the country gynaecologists within the National Health Service are not carrying out their duties under the Act and are abusing the conscience Clause of that Act?

Mr. St. John-Stevas

Nonsense.

Mrs. Short

It is not nonsense if a woman dies because she has not been examined by a consultant gynaecologist. As 27 homes for unmarried mothers have been closed down recently, will my right hon. Friend consider using some of them as units for carrying out terminations of pregnancies in these certain areas, so that at least the advantages of the Act can be given to all women who are in need of them?

Mr. Crossman

I would not wholly agree with the first part of my hon. Friend's question. The Act made it clear that we rely on the conscience of the doctor. We knew that there would be a wide variety of conscience between one doctor and another. That was an inevitable drawback of an Act of this kind, and I do not blame doctors whose consciences differ from my own. But doctors who interpret their conscience in such a way as virtually to refuse the operation in almost any circumstances merely drive women to go to the private segment in London, and that does not do anyone any good.

Lord Balniel

Does not the hon. Lady's original Question—but not her supplementary question—pinpoint the problem? Is not a basic feature of the problem that many women who in the past had abortions in deplorably dangerous conditions now have abortions perfectly legally? As this was the foreseeable result and purpose of the Act, why did not the Government provide for an expansion of the gynaecological services in the National Health Service? Why leave the emphasis on the private clinics?

Mr. Crossman

I would remind the hon. Gentleman that if we had done so at an even pace over the whole country the result would be a great deal of empty space in Birmingham and Liverpool. These are the areas where there has been no substantial increase because of the views of the doctors. We had to wait to see what happened. Nor do I believe that there is much evidence in the Health Service of undue pressure. The pressure is all within the small private sector which already takes 40 per cent., against 60 per cent. for the Health Service.

Dr. Summerskill

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the way to relieve pressure from the private sector is by expanding facilities within the Health Service. As he said, Birmingham is an example of a place where there is this lack of Health Service facilities. What is his view on the setting up of the proposed abortion clinic in Birmingham?

Mr. Crossman

I am prepared to consider that. That was the second point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, North-East (Mrs. Renée Short) about whether we should ourselves establish small abortion clinics in these disused buildings. I am reluctant to do that. That is why I think that we had better wait to see how it is going, because we hope to even it out between the various regions. But it would have been no good increasing accommodation in Birmingham. The problem as between Birmingham and Newcastle is the interpretation of the Act by the rival consultants.

Dame Irene Ward

Would it not help the right hon. Gentleman, and, indeed, all those who are interested and anxious about the Act, if he were to set up an independent committee to which all doctors and all those interested in the matter could put their points of view? Does the right hon. Gentleman think that he is in a position to wait and then say he cannot do this and cannot do that because he has not got the evidence? Lots of people would be willing to help him put these matters straight.

Mr. Crossman

Each of us has to weigh the time for a new investigation. There have been endless investigations in the past. Now action has been taken and the Bill has become an Act of Parliament. I want to give that Act reasonable time to settle down before more investigation is carried out. I think it really would be unwise to importune for further investigation, because that is not required at present.