§ Q7. Mr. Molloyasked the Prime Minister when he proposes to have further discussions with the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.
§ The Prime MinisterI have nothing at present to add to what I said in reply to Questions from my hon. Friend the Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell) and my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, North-East (Mr. Dobson) on 12th December and my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Blackley (Mr. Rose) on 19th December.—[Vol. 775, c. 579–82, c. 1557–8.]
§ Mr. MolloyShould my right hon. Friend have occasion to meet the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, will he convey to him the appreciation of many of those on this side of the House who have been concerned with the problems 658 there and the remarkable courage which Captain O'Neill has shown? Would he also say, in so far as many of the projects which have been initiated by people who felt they had a just cause have been resolved, that if Captain O'Neill carries on listening to the many complaints and resolving them he will receive appreciation from the people of all parts of the British Isles?
§ The Prime MinisterI thank my hon. Friend. I think that Captain O'Neill is well aware of the appreciation that is felt, not only by my hon. Friends but in all parts of the House, for the courage and skill which he has shown during this very difficult period. I confirm that he and his Cabinet have carried forward a number of valuable and important reforms in the sphere of human rights. The fact that they have not gone the whole way that many of us would have wanted them to go is a matter of which he is fully aware, as we are fully aware of his difficulties.
I welcome the fact that on his own initiative he and his Cabinet have set up this Commission to inquire into all the human rights issues as well as other issues which have been raised by recent rioting, marches, demonstrations and so on in Northern Ireland. I believe that the best thing that we can do now is to wait for the report of that Commission before proceeding further in this matter.
§ Mr. HeathIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that we on this side of the House also welcome the establishment by the Government of Northern Ireland of this independent Commission? Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that what is required in Northern Ireland is a period of reasonable quiet and stability in which the Government can carry through the reforms on which they have embarked, while awaiting the report of the Commission?
§ The Prime MinisterThat about sums up the position as we see it.
§ Captain OrrIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that we appreciate the tone of what has been said today and the tone of the supplementary question asked by his hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Molloy)? Would he perhaps go a little further and say that he endorses Captain O'Neill's appeal for an end to 659 demonstration and counter demonstration during the work of this Commission of inquiry?
§ The Prime MinisterThis is a matter not only for the Government but for the people of Northern Ireland. It is not for me to start laying down or suggesting what should be the behaviour in terms of peaceful demonstrations of people in Northern Ireland. There is great feeling there about human rights. Human rights have been endangered by reactionary counter-measures—I am not referring to the police but to other citizens—and I think that the appeal for the utmost restraint and for peaceful methods of demonstrating should certainly be endorsed.
§ Mr. HefferWhile paying tribute to Captain O'Neill and the fact that a Commission has been set up in Ireland, would my right hon. Friend agree that a very simple answer to the whole question of demonstration, counter-demonstration, violence and everything else that has taken place in Northern Ireland would be to give the people of Northern Ireland one man, one vote, with genuine civil liberties for all the people there at the earliest possible moment?
§ The Prime MinisterMy hon. Friend knows, from the Answers that I have previously given on this question, that while we have greatly welcomed the response to a considerable number of things that we have put to Captain O'Neill and his colleagues, the issue of one man, one vote, in local government was the outstanding issue. Obviously we want to see that proceeded with as soon as it can be but in saying that, one should not underrate what has so far been done.
§ Mr. LubbockWhile also paying tribute to Captain O'Neill and while endorsing, with qualifications, his request to people not to take part in demonstrations, may I ask the Prime Minister to realise that this would not have been necessary in the first place if a programme of civil rights had been embarked upon by the Northern Irish Government? Will he make it absolutely clear to Captain O'Neill that the continued support of the British people for his efforts is dependent on getting on with these reforms at the earliest possible moment?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that many of us have said in different words, as I said last October, that social grievances require social solutions and political grievances require political solutions. The denial of these particular rights has led to human rights demonstrations. One of the ugliest features is the response to those demonstrations by bigoted-minded people using violence for its own sake. All these things are to be inquired into by the Commission.
§ Sir D. RentonDoes the Prime Minister recollect that on television last week he indicated that in certain circumstances Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain might intervene in Northern Ireland? Will he make it abundantly plain that he has no intention whatever of doing so?
§ The Prime MinisterI answered the question put to me, which was: if certain circumstances were to arise, would we do it? I said: of course, if that was our duty, we would do it; we would not shrink from it. But I made it clear that this was entirely hypothetical. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman will study what I said, he will find that the rest of my answer was entirely in terms of a tribute to Captain O'Neill for the progress made in dealing with these problems and in seeking, through his Commission and through other ways, to avert the situation that might lead to the last thing any of us want—a constitutional crisis.
§ Mr. Michael FootWas not the principle of one man, one vote, established in this country only by forms of political demonstrations in the streets? Therefore, it is not so surprising that this has occurred in Northern Ireland. Will my right hon. Friend confirm, in response to the question just asked by the right hon. and learned Member for Huntingdonshire (Sir D. Renton), that the House of Commons has the most intimate concern in establishing that principle throughout the whole of the United Kingdom?
§ The Prime MinisterI said on Monday, having had to deal with this very phrase in the Commonwealth Conference, that we have the most intimate concern to see it carried out in all possible areas. I said that we have a very special 661 responsibility, because we have the responsibility for external relations for the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. What I feel is satisfactory is that many of the things that my right hon. Friend and I were pressing for only two or three months ago have now been conceded—they have now been introduced or are in process of movement. The establishment of one man, one vote, in local government is the next one. This is vital. But do not let us under-rate what has been done on the road to it.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder.