Low-Paid Workers

HC Deb 20 January 1969 vol 776 cc13-5

10. Mr. Ashley

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity if she will refer those industries with a high proportion of low-paid workers to the National Board for Prices and Incomes for investigation.

Mr. Harold Walker

A number of references relating to industries in this category have already been made. Further references will be made in future when appropriate. The fact that an industry contains many low-paid workers does not necessarily mean that a reference would be useful.

Mr. Ashley

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Government's achievements in this field are not outstanding? If references are to be limited, would he tell the House what the Government intend to do about the problem of low pay?

Mr. Walker

My hon. Friend should remember that redistribution of incomes is not the prime purpose of incomes policy. This subject is influenced by a wide range of Government policy, including their social and fiscal policies. He should not overlook the rôle of social security policy in aiding low-income groups, in which field the Government's achievements are very creditable.

Mr. Heffer

Would my hon. Friend give us a precise definition of a low-paid worker, since the House has never yet had such a definition?

Mr. Walker

No, the Government have never essayed a definition, because one would obviously have to take into account the varying needs of individuals. The nearest that one could come to it is, no doubt, that contained in the early N.B.P.I. Report on the agricultural industry, I think No. 29.

Dame Joan Vickers

Would the hon. Gentleman consider, for instance, the question of Admiralty pay, in one of the particularly low-paid industries? Why did he mention social security, since that surely cannot help anyone who is actually earning?

Mr. Walker

I referred to low-income groups, because, by definition, talking about low-paid workers excludes those who are generally the worst off of all, those who receive no income. If the hon. Lady would like me to, I will carefully consider earnings in the Admiralty.

40. Mr. William Price

asked the Secretary of State for Eployment and Productivity whether she is now in a position to give an official definition of a lower-paid worker.

Mr. Harold Walker

The Government have never sought to attempt a single definition of "low pay". Every case has to be considered on its merits in the light of the relevant information about total earnings, hours worked and differentials.

Mr. Price

Is my hon. Friend aware that some of us on this side have supported the prices and incomes policy on the ground that it was the only hope for the lower-paid worker? Will he now tell us whether a farm labourer taking home £12 a week qualifies or does not?

Mr. Walker

I have already told the House that the question of agricultural wages is one for negotiation between the individual employers and the workers. There is nothing at present to prevent them obtaining an increase. The reference at present before the Board does not prevent agricultural workers from negotiating and obtaining an increase at this moment.

Mr. Biffen

Does that somewhat elastic answer to the original Question suggest that even the pay of the chairmen of nationalised industries might suitably be considered as bringing them within the criterion of the lower paid?

Mr. Walker

When the hon. Gentleman talks about its being elastic, I think that he is stretching the Question a bit too far.