HC Deb 24 February 1969 vol 778 cc1051-2
3. Sir B. Rhys Williams

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity what estimate she has made of the cost to employers of giving protection of pension rights to employees leaving service before retirement age by preserving their rights in occupational pension schemes; and what she estimates to be the additional cost of giving protection of pension rights in such circumsances by granting transferability.

The Under-Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity (Mr. Roy Hattersley)

The cost of implementing the Government's proposals for deferred pensions would be £20 to £25 million a year. Universal transferability of occuptional pension rights is not at present regarded as practicable. Were it possible to achieve universal transferability the additional cost might be in the order of £100 million.

Sir B. Rhys Williams

Do not those figures show the urgency of this problem? Will the hon. Gentleman please tell the House what he intends to do?

Mr. Hattersley

I think the House, and indeed the country, have been told already in the White Paper which we published a month ago what we intend to do.

4. Sir B. Rhys Williams

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity if she will introduce legislation to regulate occupational pension schemes, defining the status, responsibility and duties of trustees, the conditions under which such schemes may qualify for tax reliefs and the method by which the rights of individuals are to be valued on change of employment, and to appoint a registrar with authority to supervise the administration of occupational pension schemes.

Mr. Hattersley

There are already statutory provisions affecting both trustees of funds, including pension funds, and Income Tax reliefs for pension schemes. The calculation of pension rights on change of employment will be dealt with in the legislation to be introduced on the preservation of pension rights. We shall be considering, in consultation with representatives of occupational pension schemes, what supervisory arrangements will be necessary to give effect to these proposals.

Sir B. Rhys Williams

While welcoming that statement, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to recognise that it would be disastrous for the future of the movement towards private occupational pension provision if there were to be publicised failures? Is not this something which the Government should take into account?

Mr. Hattersley

Certainly the Government would and do take this into account. Pensions schemes and the transferability element in the schemes are something which the Government are considering hand in hand with private firms. I am sure that in future investigations we will bear this point in mind.

Mr. Nott

Surely the White Paper does not commit the Government to introduce a transferability of pensions schemes? Why this reluctance on the part of the Government to do this? It would not cost the Government anything; what are the practical difficulties to which the hon. Gentleman referred?

Mr. Hattersley

The White Paper commits the Government to preservation of pensions schemes but the difficulties about full transferability are outlined in the White Paper. Some people would argue the impossibility of calculating both the entitlement in the old scheme and means of translating that entitlement into the new scheme.