HC Deb 16 December 1969 vol 793 cc1137-43
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Luncaster (Mr. George Thomson)

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, I wish to make a statement about the proceedings on Greece in the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe on 12th December.

In the foreign affairs debate last week my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, set out our position, which we have consistently pursued since the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary's statement of 7th May.

At the Paris meeting, the Greek Foreign Minister sought to convince the Committee of Ministers that the measures his Government had in hand qualified them for continued membership of the council. But it was our view, and that of most other delegations, that the programme offered by Mr. Pipinelis fell well short of the requirements of the statute of the Council of Europe.

A draft resolution for the suspension of Greece was circulated early in the meeting. The United Kingdom was one of the nine co-sponsors, who were later joined by two others. Several Ministers, including myself, made speeches in support of this draft. It was after hearing these speeches and seeing the weight of opinion in favour of suspension that Mr. Pipinelis announced the decision of the Greek Government to withdraw from the council.

The Greek Government's decision called for a new resolution. This was tabled and adopted unanimously, with the Foreign Minister of Cyprus not taking part in the vote.

I am placing a copy of the resolution in the Library of the House. It makes clear the view of the Committee of Ministers that Greece has seriously violated Article 3 of the Statute; expresses the committee's understanding that the Greek Government will abstain from any further participation in the activities of the council; and expresses the hope of an early return in Greece of conditions which will enable her to resume full membership of the council.

Our first and inescapable duty in facing the Greek problem was the need to preserve the standards of democratic behaviour to which the Council of Europe is pledged. The Committee of Ministers has clearly discharged its duty. The committee had, for more than two and a half years, exercised considerable tolerance in permitting the continued membership of a Government that was in clear violation of its Statute.

But, as I said in my speech, the Council of Europe could no longer be true to itself with a representative of the present Greek Government taking part in its deliberations. The only proper course was to proceed with the suspension of Greece. We and most of our colleagues were ready to do this, but Mr. Pipinelis's announcement made it unnecessary.

We also wished to discharge this duty in a way which would further our hope that Greece will soon return to democratic practices and will thus be able to resume membership of the Council of Europe. I am sure that all hon. Members in all parts of the House share this hope which the Committtee of Ministers expressed in its resolution.

Sir Alec Douglas-Home

The whole House will undoubtedly share the right. hon. Gentleman's hope that Greece can return to the Council of Europe. During the course of discussions, did the Greek Foreign Minister say that he was willing to try to reconcile the Greek Government's programme of legislation towards elections with that of the Commission of the Council? If so, why was not this procedure received sympathetically?

Mr. Thomson

The Greek Foreign Minister sought to state that what the Greek Government were pledged to do was consistent with the proposals being put forward by the Commission on Human Rights. The difficulty in which the vast majority of members of the Council of Ministers found themselves was that there was nothing new in what he said. Since there had been general agreement that the steps taken by the Greek Government—although some were useful in themselves—fell a long way short of the Statute of the Council of Europe, there was no alternative but to move towards suspension.

Sir Alec Douglas-Home

The right hon. Gentleman has not quite answered my question. Did the Greek Foreign Minister offer to try to reconcile this with the programme of the Commission? This seems to me to be an opportunity which should not have been lost.

Mr. Thomson

No. He offered nothing new to the Council of Ministers.

Mr. Alan Lee Williams

Will my right hon. Friend agree that the withdrawal of Greece is a recognition that the Greeks have failed to live up to their own promises to restore parliamentary democracy? Can he say something about the possible repercussions of this decision on N.A.T.O.?

Mr. Thomson

Yes, Sir. We have never considered that Greek membership of the Council of Europe was relevant to Greece's rôle in N.A.T.O. The Council of Europe is essentially a forum which deals with matters of parliamentary institutions, human rights and the rule of law—[Interruption.] I will seek to explain the distinction which I think can legitimately be drawn.

We feel that the Council of Europe is the right forum in which such questions can properly be pursued. N.A.T.O. is a defence alliance. Actions against Greece in N.A.T.O. would not necessarily help the Greek people, but would undermine the security of the south-east flank of N.A.T.O., thus putting at risk democratic ideals and parliamentary institutions on a scale far wider than Greece.

Mr. Kirk

Did the Greek Foreign Minister offer a firm date for elections or the lifting of martial law?

Mr. Thomson

No, Sir. This was one of the difficulties and is perhaps relevant to the question asked by the right hon. Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home). As my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Common-wealth Secretary said in the foreign affairs debate, any proposals from the Greek Government must include an undoubted date for genuinely free elections. Despite much discussion and effort to produce such a commitment, no such commitment was forthcoming.

Mr. John Fraser

Will my right hon. Friend recall the Preamble to the North Atlantic Treaty, which calls for adherence to individual liberty and the rule of law, and will he institute a searching examination into the way in which Greece can fulfill its rôle? It is the feeling of many people that the Greek Army has become a shambles because of political interference, and that its existence in N.A.T.O. is more of a threat to democracy than a help.

Mr. Thomson

I had the Preamble in mind when I said that I thought that any question of creating risks to the south-east flank would do great harm to the parliamentary institutions which my hon. Friend and I support.

Mr. Russell Johnston

While accepting that the Government have taken the right course, does not the right hon. Gentleman now think that the prospects for a return to democracy in Greece are decreasing rapidly?

Mr. Thomson

The first obligation for members of the Council of Europe at this stage was to the Statute of the Council of Europe itself and to preserving democratic standards within the council. But I am sure that those Greeks who are most anxious for an early return to democracy will have been encouraged by the outcome in Paris.

Mr. Brooks

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Greek rôle in Europe is daily becoming more sinister in that there are disturbing and well-authenticated allegations of Greek interference in the internal domestic affairs of Italy which promises to see the emergence of a Fascist underbelly across Europe? In view of the rôle which the Greek colonels seem to be playing, has not the time come to consider Greece's participation in N.A.T.O.?

Mr. Thomson

I cannot accept my hon. Friend's conclusions, for the reasons that I have given already.

On the earlier part of my hon. Friend's question, I am not responsible for, nor can I comment on, newspaper reports.

Sir J. Rodgers

While not condoning the application of undemocratic principles by the Greek Government, in view of the place that that Government occupy in the N.A.T.O. Alliance, can the right hon. Gentleman say why the British Government felt it incumbent upon them to take the lead in lining up the other nations to drive Greece from the Council of Europe?

Mr. Thomson

The facts of the matter are as I set them out in my main statement. There were nine co-sponsors to the original resolution and, subsequently, another two countries joined as cosponsors. I think that we took the right course to be co-sponsors, but I do not define that as "taking the lead".

Mr. Wyatt

While agreeing with the Government's attitude, will my right hon. Friend assure the House that Greece will be readmitted when she has reached at least the same democratic standards as Turkey, which is a member of the Council of Europe and has the jolly habit of executing Prime Ministers and Cabinet Ministers—or is it that Turkey is so far away that we do not know what goes on there and do not care?

Mr. Thomson

I do not think that, on reflection, my hon. Friend will feel that that was a very fair question. Perhaps he has forgoten that Turkey conducted a democratic election only a very short time ago.

As to Greece's readmission, the sooner that Greece returns to the kind of democratic practices which enable her to be readmited, the better. But that will be a matter for the Council of Ministers at the time

Mr. Amery

Looking to the future and and the right hon. Gentleman's hopes that Greece will soon be readmitted to the Council of Europe, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will bear in mind that our Cypriot friends have given us very good co-operation over the sovereign base areas and that the Cypriot community is disturbed by the line that Her Majesty's Government felt bound to take at the discussions the other day? Will he also bear in mind that there is a widespread opinion among competent observers, not least Turkish observers, that it was only the attitude of the present Greek Government which prevented a war between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus?

Mr. Thomson

Naturally, all relevant considerations were in the minds of the Government in coming to this stage. But I would remind the House that the Foreign Minister of Cyprus did not participate in the vote in Paris on Friday.

Mr. Orme

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the military strategy which the colonels followed when they assumed power in Greece was based on the N.A.T.O. strategy for that country and that this is extremely disturbing to people in Western Europe? Surely the fact that Greece wants to remain in N.A.T.O. is one reason why we should see that it is not able to do so while the regime is undemocratic.

Mr. Thomson

As members of the Council of Europe, our duty is to preserve the democratic standards of the council and do everything that we can to encourage a return to those standards in Greece. As for N.A.T.O., our duty is to conduct N.A.T.O. in such a way that it most efficiently defends our liberties.

Sir Ian Orr-Ewing

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his replies to questions from below the Gangway are only whetting the appetities of some of his Left-wing colleagues for further moves against Greece? Will he retain the robust attitudes that he has taken, because we on this side of the House feel that Greece is a valuable member of N.A.T.O. and that we need friends for the defence of Western Europe?

Mr. Thomson

I have made plain my views about the N.A.T.O. issue. But I hope that hon. Members on that side of the House will join us in our robustness in defending the democratic standards of the Council of Europe.

Mr. Winnick

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the remarks made yesterday in Athens show that the majority of the Council of Europe were right to say goodbye and good riddance to the Greek colonels, their régime and their tortures? Does my right hon. Friend also agree that the reaction on the Tory benches to his statement shows that the Munich spirit still lives on among the Tories?

Mr. Thomson

It would not be helpful for me to make any detailed comment on that. As the Minister responsible for this matter in Paris, I was grateful for the bipartisan approach in support of Her Majesty's Government's position by hon. Members of both sides of the House on our delegation to the Council of Europe.

Sir D. Walker-Smith

In view of the pressures from hon. Gentlemen opposite for the expulsion of Greece from N.A.T.O., will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Secretary of State for Defence to initiate a study on the added burden, statistically, financially and otherwise, which would come on the other member countries, and on this country in particular?

Mr. Thomson

I will draw my right hon. Friend's attention to that comment.