HC Deb 15 December 1969 vol 793 cc907-13
25. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what progress has been made in the negotiations for improved salary scales for nurses; and whether the increases proposed will be required to come within the norms of the prices and incomes policy.

3. Mr. Biffen

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a further statement on the current claim for increased salaries for the nursing profession and the negotiations arising there-from.

45. Dr. Summerskill

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will now make a further statement on measures to be taken to improve the pay structure of the nursing profession.

Dr. John Dunwoody

We expect to receive the final part of this important claim this week, and the two sides of the Whitley Council have planned a series of joint negotiations to start after Christmas Urgent consideration is being given to the application of the relevant aspects of the new White Paper on incomes policy which has just been published.

Mr. Hamilton

That is welcome as far as it goes, but does my hon. Friend realise that there would be national unanimity on the desirability of giving to the nurses and ancillary service staff in our hospitals a substantial increase with some element of retrospection in it? Can he say whether, or when, he will be able to make a definite announcement on the matter?

Dr. Dunwoody

I cannot at this stage say when a definite announcement will be made. As hon. Members know, the last award is due to run until the end of March next year. My Department is conscious of the great feeling of many people in the community about the nurses' case. As a measure of that, I can tell the House that we have received over 126,000 signed copies of the printed letter issued by the Royal College of Nursing and about 2,000 other letters on the subject.

Dr. Summerskill

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that the most satisfactory aspect of the Government's incomes policy is that it is committed to help the low-paid, for these are people who are poorly organised and who do not command economic power? The nursing profession is an outstanding example of this section of the community.

Dr. Dunwoody

I agree with what my hon. Friend has said about the Government's incomes policy White Paper, and I take note of the point which she makes about the nursing profession in this regard.

Mr. Frederic Harris

Will the Government give as much sympathy as possible to this, case, since a large number of nurses are leaving this country to go abroad as well, thus adding to the problems of our hospitals at present?

Dr. Dunwoody

We shall certainly give as much consideration as we can to this case—a great deal more, I may say, than hon. Members opposite gave it some years ago when the nurses were subjected to a 2½ per cent, wage increase.

As regards the number of nurses going abroad, although this may give rise to some concern, I should emphasise, as I did earlier today, that the number of nurses employed in the National Health Service has been going up every year.

Mr. Lubbock

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm what I understood him to say in answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Dr. Summerskill), that he does regard the nurses as lower-paid workers within the meaning of that term in the Government's most recent White Paper on prices and incomes?

Dr. Dunwoody

I think that the hon. Gentleman slightly misunderstood what I said. I said that I took note of the position of nurses in regard to lower-paid workers, and I agreed with my hon. Friend that the part of the White Paper which dealt with the problems faced by lower-paid workers was very important.

Mr. Dean

Will the Minister bear in mind that the nurses and the country feel strongly not only about the present level of salaries but also about the career structure, and will he give an absolute assurance that the Government will take into account that nurses are not prepared to try to enforce their claims by strike action?

Dr. Dunwoody

We all respect the nurses because they have said that they are not prepared in any circumstances to go to strike action. The problem of the career structure is very real. There has been a considerable improvement in recent years, with the introduction of the Salmon career structure. Obviously, this is one of the points which must be taken into consideration in the negotiations ahead.

43. Mr. J. H. Osborn

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will tabulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the average weekly wage for nursing sisters and nursing staff, including and excluding extras provided by the hospital services, for each of the last 10 years; and if he will express these figures as a percentage of the average industrial wage over the same period.

Dr. John Dunwoody

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT tables comparing the average weekly salary of a staff nurse and ward sister in a general and a psychiatric hospital respectively with the average earnings of manual workers, male and female, in the manufacturing and certain other industries. The figures are not strictly comparable because information is not available about the average amounts earned by nurses by way of extra payments. As present these take the form of special duty payments for night and week-end duty, which account for about 4.8 per cent, of the salary bill for hospital nurses and, in psychiatric hospitals, payments for overtime where appropriate.

Mr. Osborn

In spite of the Report of the Prices and Incomes Board, is it not a fact that young people contemplating entering the nursing profession find that, compared with other opportunities, the career structure and the remuneration are far less attractive? Is there not an urgent need to adjust this imbalance?

Dr. Dunwoody

As I said in answer to an earlier Question, we are very conscious of the urgent need to look into the nurses' recent pay claim. I cannot add to what I said earlier.

Mr. Spriggs

Is my hon. Friend aware that right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House are very concerned at the very low pay which members of the nursing profession are receiving and that the House demands some action to enable them to enjoy the standards which they deserve?

Dr. Dunwoody

I am very conscious of the strong feeling among not only hon. Members on both sides of the House but

TABLE 1—GENERAL HOSPITAL
Date Staff Nurse Salary Range Average Ward Sister Salary Range Average Earnings of Male Worker
£ s. £ s £ s. £ s. £ s. £ s. £ s.
1st March, 1959 … 9 12–12 0 10 16 11 19–15 7 13 13
1st October, 1959 … 13 11
1st October, 1960 … 14 11
1st December, 1960 … 10 1–12 12 11 6 12 12–16 2 14 7
1st October, 1961 … 15 7
1st April, 1962 … 10 16–13 10 12 3 13 10–17 6 15 8
1st October, 1962 … 15 17
1st July, 1963 … 11 10–14 8 12 19 15 7–20 2 17 15
1st October, 1963 … 16 15
1st July, 1964 … 11 17–14 17 13 7 15 16–20 15 18 6
1st October, 1964 … 18 2
1st July, 1965 … 13 5–16 18 15 2 17 1–23 2 20 2
1st October, 1965 … 19 12
1st October, 1966 … 20 6
1st October, 1967 … 13 15–17 12 15 14 17 15–24 1 20 18 21 8
1st October, 1968 … 23 0
1st January, 1969 … 15 1–18 18 17 0 18 12–25 4 21 18
1st April, 1969 … 23 18
Date Staff Nurse Percentage Ward Sister Percentage Average Earnings of Female Worker Staff Nurse Percentage Ward Sister Percentage
? s.
1st March, 1959 … …
1st October, 1959 … … 79.7 100.7 7 1 153.1 193.6
1st October, 1960 … … 74.2 93.8 7 8 145.9 184.4
1st December, 1960 … … 77.6 98.6 152.7 193.9
1st October, 1961 … … 73.6 93.4 7 15 145.8 185.1
1st April, 1962 … … 79.1 100.3 156.7 198.7
1st October, 1962 … … 76.6 97.1 8 1 150.9 191.3
1st July, 1963 … … 81.7 111.9 160.8 220.4
1st October, 1963 … … 77.3 105.9 8 8 154.1 211.3
1st July, 1964 … … 79.7 109.2 158.9 217.8
1st October, 1964 … … 73.7 101.1 8 19 149.1 204.4
1st July, 1965 … … 83.4 111.0 168.7 224.5
1st October, 1965 … … 77.0 102.5 9 12 157.2 209.3
1st October, 1966 … … 74.3 99.0 10 1 150.2 200.0
1st October, 1967 … … 73.3 97.6 10 11 148.8 198.1
1st October, 1968 … … 68.2 90.8 11 6 138.9 184.9
1st January, 1969 … … 73.9 95.2 150.4 193.8
1st April, 1969 … … 71.1 91.6 11 15 144.6 186.3
Average … … 76.1 99.9 152.1 199.8

the public on this issue. This is one of the factors which we shall take into account when resolving the recent pay claim.

Following are the figures:

TABLE 2—PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL
Date Staff Nurse Salary Range Average Ward Sister Salary Range Average Earnings of Male Worker
£ s. £ s. £ s. £ s. £ s. £ s. £ s.
1st March, 1959 … 10 11–12 19 11 15 12 19–16 6 14 13
1st October, 1959 … 13 11
1st October, 1960 … 14 11
1st December, 1960 … 11 2–13 12 12 7 13 12–17 2 15 7
1st October, 1961 … 15 7
1st April, 1962 … 11 18–14 12 13 5 14 12–18 8 16 10
1st October, 1962 … 15 17
1st July, 1963 … 12 9–15 7 13 18 16 6–20 2 18 4
1st August, 1963 … 16 15
1st July, 1964 … 12 17–15 16 14 7 16 16–20 15 18 16
1st October, 1964 … 18 2
1st July, 1965 … 14 4–17 16 16 0 18 0–23 2 20 16
1st October, 1965 … 19 12
1st October, 1966 … 20 6
1st October, 1967 … 14 14–18 10 16 12 18 14–24 0 21 7 21 8
1st October, 1968 … 23 0
1st January, 1969 … 16 19–20 16 18 18 20 10–27 2 23 16
1st April, 1969 … 23 18
Date Staff Nurse Percentage Ward Sister Percentage Earnings of Female Worker Staff Nurse Percentage Ward Sister Percentage
£ s.
1st March, 1959 … …
1st October, 1959 … … 86.7 108.1 7 1 166.6 207.8
1st October, 1960 … … 80.7 100.6 7 8 158.7 197.9
1st December, 1960 … … 84.8 105.4 166.8 207.4
1st October, 1961 … … 80.4 100 7 15 159.3 198
1st April, 1962 … … 86.3 107.4 170.9 212.9
1st October, 1962 … … 83.5 104.1 8 1 164.5 204.9
1st July, 1963 … … 87.6 114.8 172.6 226
1st October, 1963 … … 82.9 108.6 8 8 165.4 216.6
1st July, 1964 … … 85.6 112.2 170.8 223.8
1st October, 1964 … … 79.2 103.8 8 19 160.3 210
1st July, 1965 … … 88.3 114.9 178.7 232.4
1st October, 1965 … … 81.6 106.1 9 12 166.6 216.6
1st October, 1966 … … 78.8 102.4 10 1 159.2 206.9
1st October, 1967 … … 77.5 99.7 10 11 157.3 202.2
1st October, 1968 … … 72.1 92.8 11 6 146.9 188.9
1st January, 1969 … … 82.1 103.4 167.2 210.6
1st April, 1969 … … 79 99.5 11 15 160.8 202.5
Average … … 82.1 104.9 164.2 209.7