HC Deb 09 December 1969 vol 793 cc224-6
21. Mr. Peter Mills

asked the Minister of Transport what is the value of subsidies for rural bus services withdrawn by the National Bus Company as a result of the discretion granted to them under Section 54 of the Transport Act, 1968.

27. Mr. Bruce Campbell

asked the Minister of Transport what is the value of subsidies for rural bus services withdrawn by British Railways as a result of the discretion granted to them under Section 54 of the Transport Act, 1968.

Mr. Mulley

I would refer the hon. Members to the answer I gave the hon. Member for Bury St. Edmunds (Mr. Eldon Griffiths) on 24th November.—[Vol. 792, c. 38.]

Mr. Mills

When is the Minister planning to withdraw this subsidy to private operators? Will he bear in mind the very serious effect it will have on the operators and, more important, upon the passengers they carry?

Mr. Mulley

This matter was very fully debated in the House on 27th November. The transfer from British Rail to the National Bus Service is a sensible arrangement and was provided for under the Transport Act, 1968. It is right that the pattern of rural services should be considered together and not strictly on the basis of whether a service was connected with a previous railway closure.

Mr. Michael Heseltine

Would the Minister explain when he intends to approve the withdrawal of the subsidies from the private and municipal operators?

Mr. Mulley

I cannot answer that without notice.

23. Miss Quennell

asked the Minister of Transport what provision he has made for the payment of rural bus grants for the calendar year 1969 and for the calendar year 1970.

Mr. Mulley

I would refer the hon. Lady to the answer given to the hon. Member for Tavistock (Mr. Michael Heseltine) on 25th November.—[Vol. 792, c. 50.]

Miss Quennell

Does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that it is not so much the private operators who matter but the bus passengers, who depend on these bus services in country areas and who are getting worried about the future of their transport?

Mr. Mulley

The hon. Lady asked me about rural bus grants, and the only reason why I could not give more information is because a number of discussions are going on with local authorities and I cannot predict how many of them will avail themselves of the possibility of further grants under the 1968 Act. This matter was very fully discussed in the House, and I think that when the hon. Lady looks at the debate she will realise that much more money, around £11 million, is going into the bus services generally, a substantial part of that to rural areas.

Mr. Michael Heseltine

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that he has told the House what is being provided for 1969, and that in his view it is an over-estimate? What the House wants to know is what the Minister thinks will actually be spent in 1969. Is he aware that that is the answer which he must give us?

Mr. Mulley

The point is simple. As I said in answer to a previous Question, provision is made for the expenditure of £95,000 in the current financial year. There are still several months to the end of that financial year, and I would be happy if more applications came along. If they do not, then we will probably not reach £95,000.