§ 3. Mr. Onslowasked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will now publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the figures relating to estimated costs of the multi-rôle combat aircraft which he gave to the Press non-attributably at the briefing held in his office on the afternoon of 14th May, 1969.
§ 33. Mr. Boothasked the Secretary of State for Defence when he expects to be in a position to give the estimated research, development and production costs of the multi-role combat aircraft.
§ The Minister of Defence for Equipment (Mr. John Morris)It is not the normal practice to publish cost estimates of this nature.
§ Mr. OnslowIn that case, why did the hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend give this information to a large number of journalists at the meeting to which I referred? Is it not scandalous that the 1460 House should be insulted in this way by being denied information by what is plainly an abuse of the non-attributable procedure and the disgraceful further extension of the misleading of the House by the Secretary of State for Defence?
§ Mr. MorrisThe hon. Gentleman is responsible for his own word "misleading" and the other matters to which he referred. He carries the full responsibility for that. I will not be drawn into discussing the credibility of Press statements or estimates. This is a matter that has been canvassed at length before.
§ Mr. BoothIs it not entirely unreasonable, in view of the way previous military aircraft estimates have rocketed, that the House should be asked to approve a continuation of this project without any estimate of what costs will be involved to the nation?
§ Mr. MorrisAs my right hon. Friend has explained to the House very fully, there are a number of distinct stages to the project, which will be looked at in turn to ensure that we have full and adequate control of the project. The number of phases that the project has been divided into will ensure this.
§ Mr. RipponWill the Minister understand that there is grave concern about the matter? Why should Parliament not be allowed to have the figures which the Secretary of State has given to the Press?
§ Mr. MorrisI cannot give figures for obvious reasons. There are security and contractual reasons, and the interests of at least two other Governments are involved. In any case, it would be very misleading to give figures at this stage of the project, when project definition is still in progress. I can give an assurance that I will certainly keep the House in mind, and I am sure that my right hon. Friend will give it the maximum possible amount of information at the appropriate stages.
§ Mr. OnslowOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the wholly unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I intend to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
§ 35. Sir Ian Orr-Ewingasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether plans 1461 for the development of the multi-role combat aircraft are going ahead as scheduled.
§ Mr. John MorrisYes, Sir.
§ Sir Ian Orr-EwingIs the hon. Gentleman aware that there are strong indications that the German Government are likely to place a lot of contracts for avionic equipment with United States companies and that this is a European aircraft which should be developed largely with European equipment?
§ Mr. MorrisI would hope very much that this aeroplane remains a European one. I take account of the hon. Member's remarks. As he knows, avionics and that part of the development of aircraft are slower to develop, but I am assured that there would be no difficulty in British firms getting their fair share. In fact, the greater part of the avionics will be a national fit.
§ Mr. CorfieldIt is all very fine for the hon. Gentleman to say that he will take account of this, but what is he going to do about it? Over and over again we are losing out on design leadership, or if we get it in the engines we lose it on the avionics.
§ Mr. MorrisWe are part and parcel of every development of this very important aircraft. If the hon. Member looks at the history of the part we have played and the success we have had, in particular with the engines, he will see that we have no cause to be disappointed in any way.
§ 47. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilsonasked the Secretary of State for Defence, to what extent agreement with the Governments of Western Germany and Italy for the joint development and production of the multi-rôle combat aircraft preserves to Her Majesty's Government control over costs and the right to introduce modifications.
§ Mr. John MorrisI have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins) on 25th June and to the reply given to the hon. Member for Bebington (Mr. Brooks) by the Minister of State, Ministry of Technology on 8th July.—[Vol. 785, c. 1504: Vol. 786, c. 228–9.]
§ Mr. McNair-WilsonCan the hon. Gentleman say whether the Government have decided a ceiling on the contribution that they are prepared to make to the project and, if so, what it is?
§ Mr. MorrisThe answer is, no, Sir.
§ Mr. RipponHas the hon. Gentleman's attention been drawn to the anxieties expressed by the editor of "Jane's Fighting Aircraft"? Can he assure the House that, when developed, the M.R.C.A. will be up to the specifications and standard performance of the TSR2?
§ Mr. MorrisI was not aware of the anxiety of the editor of "Jane's". I assure the hon. Gentleman that this aircraft will meet the needs of the British forces.