§ 3. Sir B. Rhys Williamsasked the Minister for Civil Service what estimates he has made of the annual cost of protecting the pension rights of members of public sector schemes who change employment before the normal retiring age by giving full transferability, and of the savings to be made by restricting the degree of protection to preservation only.
§ Mrs. HartThe estimated additional costs of preservation and of transferability of pensions for the country as a whole were given by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary for Employment and Productivity in reply to a Question by the hon. Member on 24th February. Of these costs it is estimated that about one-half would fall on public sector schemes.—[Vol. 778; c. 1051.]
§ Sir B. Rhys WilliamsDoes the right hon. Lady accept that transferability is the only acceptable target, and that preservation is a very poor alternative?
§ Mrs. HartNo. I think that the hon. Member, quite sincerely, underrates the vast importance of achieving preservation. He will recognise that the decision about this, as was earlier explained in the White Paper, rests on the feasibility of achieving full transferability, but he is mistaken to underrate the immense achievement to be made by preservation.
§ 4. Sir B. Rhys Williamsasked the Minister for the Civil Service what is the composition of the committee which has been reviewing the Civil Service pension scheme in the light of the White Paper, National Superannuation and Social Insurance; what recommendations it has made; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mrs. HartThe committee, which is under the chairmanship of an Under-Secretary in the Civil Service Department, consists of 10 Official Side members from Government Departments, and 12 Staff Side members. With permission, I will circulate details in the OFFICIAL 916 REPORT. The committee is undertaking a far-reaching review and its recommendations cannot be expected for some considerable time.
§ Sir B. Rhys WilliamsWill the Civil Service be contracted out of the new scheme?
§ Mrs. HartI think that the hon. Member is as much aware as any hon. Member of what is being tackled by the committee, namely, reconstructing the entire superannuation scheme. It is far too early to say what the position will be at the end of the committee's considerations.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterCan the right hon. Lady at least give an assurance that there is no question of reducing the noncontributory pensions which are part of a civil servant's terms of service, in order to adjust to the situation in the light of national superannuation?
§ Mrs. HartNone of those factors comes into the matter. I can certainly assure the right hon. Gentleman about that.
§ Following are the names of the members of the committee:
§ Official Side
- Officials from the following Departments:
- Civil Service Department
- Ministry of Defence (Army Department)
- Department of Employment and Productivity
- Foreign and Commonwealth Office
- Government Actuary's Department
- Department of Health and Social Security
- Ministry of Housing and Local Government
- Inland Revenue.
§ Staff Side
- Mr. T. H. Profitt (Vice-Chairman), National Staff Side.
- Mr. J. Bishop, Joint Co-ordinating Committee for Government Industrial Establishments.
- Mr. E. V. W. Marshall, Union of Post Office Workers.
- Mr. J. Muir, Society of Civil Servants.
- Mr. D. Northrop, First Division Association.
- Mr. S. C. Rosser, Post Office Engineering Union.
- Mr. S. A. R. Seaton, Post Office Management Staffs Association.
- Mr. K. R. Thomas, Civil Service Clerical Association.
- Mr. J. L. Tindall, Ministry of Labour Staff Association.
- Mr. J. O. N. Vickers. Civil Service Union.
- Mr. L. T. Williams, Joint Co-ordinating Committee for Government Industrial Establishments.
- Mr. B. G. Sutherland, National Staff Side.