HC Deb 23 April 1969 vol 782 cc455-6
17. Mr. Edward M. Taylor

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by what percentage the numbers of murders and crimes of violence, respectively, increased between 1957 and 1968.

Mr. Buchan

The number of murders made known to the police in Scotland increased from 12 in 1957 to 41 in 1968 (242 per cent.). In the same period crimes of violence increased from 1,116 to 3,586 (221 per cent.).

Since the figure for murder in 1968 has not yet been corrected in the light of subsequent judicial determination, uncorrected figures have been used for both years to ensure comparability. The figure for crimes of violence for 1968 is provisional.

Mr. Taylor

In view of those frightening figures, is the hon. Gentleman not seriously concerned that in the first three months of this year net recruitment to the Scottish police forces came to only eight? Has he in mind any new initiatives to encourage recruiting and to reduce wastage?

Mr. Buchan

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on looking for a positive answer, at least on this occasion. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have now eased the partial restriction, and we hope that that will begin to bring the kind of results that we want.

Mrs. Ewing

Is the hon. Gentleman conducting any inquiry into the causes of the increase? If he is not doing so at present, would he consider a widespread inquiry of that kind because, if we do not know the causes, we cannot find solutions?

Mr. Buchan

The hon. Lady should know that I have been conducting a continual inquiry ever since I began my present job. I have involved academic institutes and other professional experts, as well as doing my own investigations. She is quite right when she says that there is no simple answer. This is a multifarious problem and it requires a multifarious solution. I hope that the reports which have been published in the last few weeks dealing with possible social measures in Glasgow will give an indication of one way forward.

Mr. Rankin

In view of the figures which my hon. Friend has given and in view of what he said in reply to that last question, will he say what sorts of solution to the problem are being entertained? Can he give us some guidance on the way in which his thoughts are developing?

Mr. Buchan

I have outlined the matter at considerable length in debate in the House over the last few months as well as in the major debate on the Report of the Estimates Committee last year. There are two main ways of dealing with it. One is the possibility of increasing the strength of the police in terms of numbers, detection methods and equipment. We are doing that. The other is to take the right kinds of social measure, as outlined in the report I recently published on the Glasgow area. Yet another way is to discover by investigation the particular causes within a Scottish context, on which there is a good deal of information in other areas.

Mr. Wylie

On this question of detection methods, while recognising the gravity of the problem, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman has closed his mind to the possibility of widening the powers of search of the police?

Mr. Buchan

I do not think that that is part of the solution. I looked at it very carefully throughout last year, and neither the events since that period of discussion nor my own thinking illustrate the need for it. My view then was that it might have created a more complex and difficult problem in our industrial cities. I still adhere to that view.