HC Deb 22 April 1969 vol 782 cc251-4
Q1. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Prime Minister if he will initiate an independent inquiry into the feasibility of transferring to Scotland the headquarters of some of the nationalised industries.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson)

I do not think such an inquiry is needed. The nationalised industries are already well aware of the need to take account of dispersal and regional development policy so far as is consistent with the continued efficiency of their operations.

Mr. Hamilton

That Answer is not very satisfactory. Does my right hon. Friend recognise that there is no case, for instance, for the headquarters of the National Coal Board to be in London? How much coal is produced in London? To take other examples, how much steel is produced in London? How much forestry is produced in London and the South-East? All these Boards could and should be situated in development areas —if not in Scotland in some other development areas.

The Prime Minister

The Forestry Commission is about to move from London. The great proportion of the employees of the National Coal Board and the British Steel Corporation are outside London but, with the increasing need for discussion on matters such as fuel policy, with which this House is greatly concerned, it is necessary for the headquarters to be here. But I have met the chairmen of the nationalised industries and urged upon them the need to decentralise their activities and their purchasing policies as far as possible.

Mr. Gordon Campbell

Will the Prime Minister bear in mind the successful precedent concerning a Government Department in 1963, when it was decided to move the Post Office Savings Bank to Glasgow, thereby providing 6,000 jobs?

The Prime Minister

We are well aware of that example. That has been going through over a period of time and is being supplemented.

Mr. Hector Hughes

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the North and East of Scotland are very badly treated in this way and that it is very important to spread trade, industry, commerce and employment more evenly throughout Scotland, instead of having it concentrated in the South-West?

The Prime Minister

That is what we are seeking to do, and with considerable success. However, the Question relates to the headquarters of the nationalised industries, and even my hon. and learned Friend, with his well-known enthusiasm for the area which he represents, would hardly suggest that it would be right to decentralise the headquarters responsibility of publicly-owned industries quite as far as that. We have recently sent a second Inland Revenue computer centre to Scotland, but not as far north as my hon. and learned Friend has in mind.

Mrs. Ewing

Is the Prime Minister telling us that the nationalised industries in Scotland have sufficient autonomy? Is not the position still that decisions which end up threatening the consumer's pocket are made elsewhere? Does he not realise that promises of decentralisation are empty unless they are followed by action at repeated intervals?

The Prime Minister

But, on the basis of everything that the hon. Lady has put to us since coming to the House, she would not have the benefit of any nationalised industries, since her policy is to have only Scottish-owned industries. The decentralisation policy of Her Majesty's Government applies to United Kingdom publicly-owned ventures and enterprises.

Mr. Heath

While agreeing with the Prime Minister on the last part of his answer, may I ask him whether he is prepared to examine the question with his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade with a view to seeing whether more powers can be devolved on the regional organisation of the Board of Trade in Scotland to deal particularly with development applications arising there?

The Prime Minister

I looked into this question myself when I was in Scotland, and I discussed it with the Economic Planning Council of which my right hon. Friend is the Chairman. A great deal of further decentralisation has taken place, and we have examined among others the question which has been a thorn in the flesh of successive Presidents of the Board of Trade, including my right hon. Friend and myself, of more speedy decisions in connection with the work of B.O.T.A.C., which is of vital importance to Scotland.

Mr. Grimond

Is the Prime Minister aware that the situation about the Forestry Commission is totally indefensible? The headquarters has gone out of London only as far as Basingstoke. As the majority of its work is in Scotland, is it not important to get the headquarters out of the South-East of England into Scotland? Most jobs are in the North. Will the Prime Minister consider having the headquarters moved to Edinburgh or to some other place in the North?

The Prime Minister

Very careful consideration was given to whether the headquarters could be located in Scotland. In the end it was decided that it could not be located there. On the other hand, in terms of employment, as opposed to the small staff involved, the right hon. Gentleman will have welcomed the big increase in the planting programme in Scotland decided upon by the Government.

Mrs. Ewing

On a point of order. As my question was not answered by the Prime Minister—[Interruption.]—as he answered a different Question, I give notice that this must be raised on the Adjournment.

Mr. Speaker

Order Notice must be given in the conventional way.

Dame Irene Ward

On a point of order. I wondered whether England comes into any discussion in the House of Commons.

Mr. Speaker

Order. This Question was about Scotland.