HC Deb 16 October 1968 vol 770 cc543-52

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Harper.]

11.27 p.m.

Mr. John Biffen (Oswestry)

On 23rd November it is proposed that Ifton Colliery shall close. With this event will culminate what has been a fairly lengthy process of deterioration in job prospects in North-West Shropshire, which I believe is a subject fully suitable to occupy this brief time of the House.

I say that the closure of Ifton is the culmination of a fairly lengthy process. Its extent and nature can be appreciated when it is considered that other sources of major employment in North-West Shropshire have all been adversely affected over the last decade, whether it is the rundown of defence establishments in the area, or railway closures, or the steady decline of agricultural employment consequential upon the higher degree of mechanisation in agriculture. Whereas railways, defence and agriculture employed just short of 5,000 people in the Oswestry area in 1958, the figure today, before the Ifton closure, is already down to just over 1,400.

The closure at Ifton, which affects neighbouring constituencies as well as mine, will probably add about 400 or 500 further people on to the unemployed register in the Oswestry area. It may be significantly less, and I would greatly appreciate Ministerial comment on this, point. It is the view of the Oswestry Rural District Council that with the closure of Ifton Colliery there is the prospect of unemployment of between 7 per cent. and 8 per cent.

This is a wholly inappropriate occasion to discuss the whole philosophy of development areas. Indeed, I should be out of order if I sought so to do. If the area does not have the consequences of development area status, there is a real need that it shall from within its own resources be able to develop the infrastructure to attract new industry. By "infrastructure" I mean the right balance of provision in education, roads and many of those services which are channelled through the Shropshire County Council.

I have a particular request to put to the hon. Lady on that aspect of the matter. May we have an assurance that the development of Dawley New Town will not lead to a concentration of what I would call social expenditure on East and Central Shropshire to the disadvantage of the outlying areas? The Shropshire County Council itself is much exercised on this question, and I can do no better than quote from a letter dated 4th September this year which it addressed to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government.

Commenting upon the consequences of Dawley New Town, the county council observed: The burdens are highlighted in the current economic climate which does not favour the normal development of services elsewhere in the county: for example, there is a marked uneasiness on the part of the Council that on the evidence of the approved school building programme for 1968–69 the county as a whole is being required to make sacrifices for Dawley". The second matter on which I put a request to the hon. Lady concerns the question of jobs in prospect in the area. Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Wales—I am grateful for his attendance here at the beginning of the debate, I appreciate the personal interest which he has shown in the whole question of the closure of Ifton colliery, and I excuse him if he is unable to stay—said, in opening the debate on Welsh affairs: At the same time, I am very conscious that there are uncertainties surrounding the future of the coal industry in the area, in particular the proposal to close Ifton colliery. But, despite the uncertainties, a realistic comparison of the jobs needed and the jobs in prospect in the area"— these are the significant words— gives cause for optimism. The important point is that the jobs in prospect are not 'pie in the sky'; they are being created now. B I.C.C., Cadbury and Firestone—giants of industry—are but three of the firms which have appreciated the excellent locational advantages of the area …".—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 15th October, 1968; Vol. 770, c. 228–9.] No one will be more delighted than I if the optimism which the right hon. Gentleman expressed is fulfilled. He has written to me stating that about 2,400 jobs for male employment will become available in the employment exchange areas of Wrexham, Cefn Mawr and Rhos. Those places are reasonably near Ifton colliery, and undoubtedly many now working at Ifton live outside my constituency and will be nearer to those exchange centres than are my own constituents. But I am not trying to make detailed points; I recognise that one must not be narrow-minded but must take the area in totality.

However, if, as the Secretary of State says in his letter, these are jobs which will become available over four years, may we have a rather more detailed analysis of when they are likely to appear? The right hon. Gentleman's letter speaks of jobs which are expected to arise within the next four years in authorised new industrial building and in existing buildings taken over by manufacturing firms". There is a great deal of difference from the point of view of my constituents between the likelihood of jobs appearing in the third and fourth years rather than the first and second.

I realise that an answer to a request of this kind must of its nature be tentative; it is in that spirit that I ask the question, and in that spirit I shall accept the answer. But I hope that this short debate will enable the Minister to make those two specific points: first, the assurance that the development of the Dawley New Town will not prejudice the provision of services in the remaining parts of the county of Shropshire, particularly the outlying parts; and, second, that the hon. Lady can give a clear indication of the cause for optimism, to quote the words of her right hon. Friend when speaking about the 2,400 jobs for male employment in the Wrexham area which it is expected to become available within the measurable future.

It is just under a year ago that I took part very briefly in an Adjournment debate initiated by my hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr. More). That was the unhappy occasion of the foot-and-mouth disease which ravaged the Welsh border country and Cheshire. I am sure that the Minister will appreciate that North-West Shropshire is an area that has had more than its share of misfortunes over the past 12 months, and will be glad of the opportunity to give both the assurances and the information that I have requested this evening.

11.35 p.m.

Mr. Jasper More (Ludlow)

In my constituency, which is also in Shropshire, we had early this year the threat of the closure of another colliery at Highley. We have managed to get it reprieved, but the reprieve is not final, and Highley, which is only seven miles from Bridgnorth, in my constituency, is likely to have a rate of unemployment comparable to that which my hon. Friend the Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen) has been telling us about in the Ifton area.

It was, therefore, with some consternation that I received from the hon. Lady a letter dated 14th October about an I.D.C. applied for by a firm in Bridgnorth, saying that this could not be granted, in spite of the fact that the unemployment rate at Bridgnorth has recently been higher than usual, and is over the national average. I must tell her how very ill-received this has been, particularly because this was not the case of an outside firm wanting to come into the area, but that of an established firm simply wanting to make an extension there. I want to make the most emphatic protest against this decision.

My hon. Friend has referred to the position of Dawley New Town, part of which is in my constituency. I should like the hon. Lady to appreciate what is happening and what is not happening in that context. The letter from which my hon. Friend quoted has made clear the concern of the county council, in particular in relation to matters of educational provision and the fear that exists all over Shropshire that services in other parts of the county will be prejudiced for the benefit of the new town.

On both these issues the county council has asked for deputations to be received by the Ministers concerned—the Minister of Education and the Minister of Housing and Local Government. They have been refused any interview by the Minister of Education, and they have had no date given to them by the Minister of Housing and Local Government, in spite of the fact that in the meantime the Chairman of the Dawley Development Corporation has, if Press reports are to be believed, been received and interviewed by no fewer than three members of Her Majesty's Government. The hon. Lady should tell her colleagues that the impression created by all this in Shropshire is not very good.

We seem now to be faced with a position in Shropshire that industry, which we think should come to Dawley from the conurbation and should be promoted in Shropshire itself from industries that are already there, is being pulled in six different directions, without any real Government co-ordination. In the Welsh debate yesterday we heard about the special development areas and the development areas, and in Question Time we heard about the grey areas and the claims of the new town, and that fact that cities like Birmingham in the conurbation do not want to lose their industry at all. When we have all those five claimants for industry, one sees that there is not much chance for places like Bridgnorth that do not fall into any of those categories. I therefore beg that there may be a rational scheme worked out for the allocation of industry which will not prejudice places of this kind.

On the question of the new town itself. When Shropshire agreed to cooperate, it was, I think, on the understanding that industry for the town would be drawn specifically from the west Midlands conurbation. I was not, therefore, very pleased, about three months ago, driving one day through Wolverhampton, to find the town plastered with huge advertisements of an exhibition staged by the Development Corporation of Wales to attract West Midlands industrialists to go to Wales with all the advantages of a development area. That sort of thing, obviously, cannot help the new town. In Shropshire, we face the position that industry which should be going to the new town is directed to the development areas and industry which should be developed in places like Bridgnorth may be pushed by the hon. Lady's Ministry to the new town.

I beg that this may be looked into and that some sensible policy may be evolved for Shropshire.

11.40 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade (Mrs. Gwyneth Dun-woody)

I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen) for raising this subject, because, as he will know, I am a great believer in regional policy, and I must say I am rather pleased that he has now joined me in this. I had rather suspected he joined—

Mr. Biffen

I do not want to be controversial, but I said exactly that this was not the occasion when one could discuss the whole philosophy of development areas. I have very defined views on that subject, which I shall be very pleased to debate with the hon. Lady on a suitable occasion, but she knows as well as I do that this is not the occasion. I could not have done it within the rules of order.

Mrs. Dunwoody

Nevertheless, I am sure that the hon. Member will realise that it is this Government's very particular regional policies which are contributing, in a very material sense, to employment prospects. It is employment prospects in his own area which worry him.

Let me deal with some of the points he has specifically raised and which are worrying not only him, but also the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr. More). I should say, first, that we are in some difficulty in discussing a very exact breakdown of the jobs in prospect in the exact terms he has in mind—not because we are in any way endeavouring to keep from him the exact timing, but because, as he will realise, to a certain extent the information given to us from any firm about its recruiting must be confidential.

Therefore, it is not possible for us to discuss either the details in the exact terms he has asked for about the next four years or the detail which the hon. Member for Ludlow, I know, would like to bring before the House on this particular I.D.C. application. So I hope that he will understand that I have taken note of what he said. I do understand his feelings, but it was an I.D.C. which had rather difficult circumstances attached to it, and I do not think that I can tonight go into any further details.

Both hon. Members have made a very strong case. Parts of Shropshire are particularly worried that Dawley New Town may receive social expenditure and industrial development which may go to the new town to the detriment of the rest of the county. I can say quite categorically that Dawley New Town will not get a concentration of services, leaving the rest of the county neglected.

Dawley New Town is intended to assist particularly with the problems of Birmingham conurbation. I take the hon. Member for Ludlow's point that, if men and industry are to move, some areas may appear to be more favoured than others, but it is our understanding that Dawley will not receive all the concentration in this way, but rather that Dawley itself is hoping to absorb the industries which are being moved from Birmingham, from the conurbation, and set up within the area, particularly those firms, of course, which are tied to the Midlands, and have, for various reasons, to remain within striking distance of their original sites.

The hon. Member for Oswestry was concerned that the closure of Ifton Colliery would push up the unemployment figures in his area to the region of 7 per cent. or 8 per cent. I undertook when I was just on the other side of the border, if I dare mention it, to discuss with the Ministry of Power whether this closure could be deferred for a short time. While I understand the fears of the men, without being unduly optimistic, I feel that the picture will not he as grim as the hon. Gentleman suggested.

The hon. Member himself gave one reason. Many men already employed in Ifton Colliery are from the other side of the border. As he said, the Secretary of State for Wales was quoting the number of jobs in prospect in the Wrexham area, and we feel that this is far from being a bad picture. In fact, we would go as far as to say that it is an optimistic picture, and it must to a certain extent affect the employment of men who have been working in Ifton.

The Secretary of State mentioned two major undertakings, B.I.C.C. and Firestone, which are currently recruiting. Another factory, Cadbury's at Chirk, is under construction, but no completion date is yet available. The remaining projects are not yet building, but we are convinced that by the time these three quite large undertakings reach their employment targets there will be others starting to recruit. I therefore hope that the hon. Member for Oswestry will accept my words when I say that we are talking about concrete jobs in prospect and about the near future rather than the far distant future, which was the point that concerned him. The figure of 2,400 jobs for the Wrexham area is for males only, and the total number of jobs in prospect is 3,350. This is not, in my view, too grim a picture for the future of the border country.

Both hon. Gentlemen have raised the question of schools and the fact that if too many services went into Dawley New Town they might be under-utilised. I am sure that they will both realise that this is not my departmental responsibility, but I can assure them that my hon. Friends are well aware of the attitude on this matter not only of the Shropshire County Council but of the local authorities, and they have it very much in mind.

The problem of those areas which find themselves adjacent to development areas is something which is worrying both hon. Gentlemen. The Board of Trade look very sympathetically at the question of I.D.C.s for Oswestry. No applications have been refused since 1960. I.D.C.s are generally freely available for Birmingham firms in the Dawley area, and we intend to encourage firms to move in, in order to relieve the congestion in the conurbation. We recognise that there is a problem for areas which border on development areas and which are not offered incentives, and we are as sympathetic as we can be in considering the problems that face them in creating new jobs.

The problem of Oswestry, which one accepts has faced difficulties which are bound to come in an area which has relied on traditional industries for much of its employment, and is now going through a transitional period is one that will be altered considerably by the number of factories which are coming to the border area. Within travel-to-work distance a considerable number of jobs will be available, and we feel that if we are to have a constructive effect on the in- dustrial pattern in the area this is the way in which we hope to see it develop.

We have considered whether or not we could put off the closure of Ifton Colliery. I approached my right hon. Friend the Minister of Power, and he pointed out to me that, under present arrangements agreed for consideration of colliery closures, deferments are considered only for collieries in special development areas and on the recommendation of the appropriate economic planning council. That is not to say that we are in any way unsympathetic to the difficulties faced by men who have been employed in the coal mines for many years. But we feel that the future of the entire area is one that is far from being too gloomy.

Areas which are outside development area boundaries may be at a disadvantage in attracting new industry when neighbouring places are eligible for development area assistance. This is an inevitable consequence of the policy of successive Governments since the 1930s of assisting industrial development in a way which discriminates between one part of the country and another. Wherever a development area boundary is drawn, there will be places which fall just on the wrong side of the line.

The economy of North-West Shropshire is closely linked with that of the neighbouring parts of the Welsh development area. Industrial growth and greater prosperity in North-East Wales should provide a growing market for goods and services originating in Oswestry and the surrounding area.

Without being unduly optimistic, we feel that we shall see a change in the pattern of employment and in the numbers of jobs created in the future. We do not think that it is a gloomy or dark picture, and it is to be hoped that, within a very short time, we shall be able to say to both hon. Gentlemen that many of their fears, while perfectly understandable, have perhaps been unfounded.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at ten minutes to Twelve o'clock.