HC Deb 27 November 1968 vol 774 cc498-500
37. Mr. David Howell

asked the Minister for the Civil Service in which Departments of Whitehall senior policy advisers have been appointed in accordance with the recommendations of the Fulton Committee.

Mrs. Hart

A number of Departments have senior officers with particular responsibility for long-term policy. No new advisers have been appointed since the publication of the Report with precisely the role and status recommended by the Committee. But this recommendation is being studied.

Mr. Howell

Is this not rather an urgent matter in the light of the events of the last few days and the stormy history of the Government? Is not the impetus for forward thinking which Fulton argued would follow the setting up of senior policy advisers and planning units badly needed? Should not we get on with this matter?

Mrs. Hart

We are getting on with this matter. There is a distinction to be made between medium-term and long-term planning, and there is also a need for each Department to work out the best arrangements for its responsibilities and needs. There is real urgency in our approach to this matter.

38. Mr. David Howell

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what steps she is taking to initiate an early review of the question of hiving off public programmes into autonomous public boards or corporations, as recommended by the Fulton Committee Report.

Mrs. Hart

I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said when he moved the motion on the Fulton Report (Cmnd. Paper No. 3638) on the Civil Service on 21st November, 1968.—[Vol. 773, c. 154265.]

Mr. Howell

But is the right hon. Lady aware that we did not gather very clearly what the Prime Minister intended when he spoke in that debate? Does she not accept that the hiving off of Departments is inseparable from the development of the Civil Service Department and the whole Fulton Committee philosophy? Could she tell us what plans are intended and what Departments will, possibly, disappear as a result of setting up separate agencies instead?

Mrs. Hart

My right hon. Friend made it perfectly clear last Thursday that what we are doing at the moment is carrying out a review ourselves, while not precluding the possibility of taking it to outside experts later, but if I understood correctly the hon. Member's own contribution to that debate, he was concerned not only with hiving off to autonomous organisations but with hiving off—I think I quote him—to the price mechanism and the private sector, and that, of course, would be a very different matter.

Mr. Hordern

Has the right hon. Lady's Department any intention of hiving off public programmes to autonomous bodies or not?

Mrs. Hart

This is precisely the point on which an extremely careful review is now being conducted. The House would agree, I think, that it would be most unfortunate if hasty decisions were reached on a matter of such fundamental importance. What is important is that we should consider this carefully, as the Fulton Report recommended.