HC Deb 27 May 1968 vol 765 cc1217-8
36. Mr. Worsley

asked the Lord President of the Council what structural changes he intends to propose in the Ministries of Health and Social Security or other Ministries, in the light of his duties relating to social policy; and what savings he expects to make as result.

Mr. Crossman

No date has yet been fixed for the merger of the two Departments and, after the merger itself has been accomplished, the final structure may well take some time to fashion. It will need to reflect the Government's developing social policies and to be attuned to any decisions taken in the light of the Seebohm Report, the Report of the Royal Commission on Local Government and the review which the Minister of Health has initiated of the administrative structure of the Health Services.

Mr. Worsley

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that from that reply it sounds as if this merger will never take place? Will he indicate the rough time scale of what he has in mind?

Mr. Crossman

I do not think there is any reason to think that the merger will not take place. It will take place in the near future. What I said is that there are two stages, the merger itself and the final structure later. I would regard the merger as something relatively simple to do and it will not take too long. What I warned the hon. Member of was that after the merger the second stage almost certainly will require legislation.

Mr. Hugh D. Brown

Bearing in mind the speech of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Technology and the reference to participating democracy, does my right hon. Friend agree that there might be some value in producing a green paper so that we could participate in this most important matter?

Mr. Crossman

I do not know whether my hon. Friend was referring to the Seebohm Committee or to the merger. With regard to the merger, I would not think a green paper necessary.

Dr. Dunwoody

Would my right hon. Friend agree that this merger will be widely welcomed by workers in this field and will provide considerable opportunities for progress? Will my right hon. Friend try to break down some of the divisions which exist in the Health Service between hospitals, general practitioners and local authority services?

Mr. Crossman

Everybody in the Service will agree that there is much to be done, but we should not commit ourselves. We have this long list of reports to study. They will take some time to digest. I have no doubt that we all want to see a break-down of these artificial divisions. Agreement on the next stage will be a great deal more difficult to achieve.

Mr. Gwynfor Evans

When will the promise made in 1964 to transfer the responsibilities of the Ministry of Health to the Welsh Office be fulfilled?

Mr. Crossman

That seems to be a slightly different question. I would like to reflect on it before giving a considered answer.