HC Deb 24 May 1968 vol 765 cc1188-90

Order for Second Reading read.

Hon. Members: Object.

Mr. Marcus Lipton (Brixton)

On a point of order. Would it be in order to ask you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to ensure that a record is made in HANSARD to the effect that the hon. and learned Member for Surrey, East (Mr. Doughty) objected to the Second Reading of this Bill?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

That would not be in order.

Mr. R. T. Paget (Northampton)

On a point of order. When somebody tries to cheat like that, will you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, instruct HANSARD not to put in his remarks?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I cannot give any such instruction.

Mr. Lipton

Further to that point of order. Is it in order for any hon. Member, even if he happens by accident to be learned, to accuse another hon. Member of cheating?

Mr. Paget

Yes, when he does so.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I understand the hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) to make a general observation.

Mr. Paget

Further to that point of order. It was not a general observation: it was a particular observation. The hon. Member was cheating, and he knew that he was cheating.

Mr. Raymond Fletcher (Ilkeston)

Further to that point of order. Since the term "cheating" has now been authorised, is it permissible for me to point of that week after week Sabbatarian saboteurs have been cheating on another Bill?

Mr. Leo Abse (Pontypool)

Further to that point of Order. May I say that everybody is cheating me out of an Adjournment debate?

Sir Knox Cunningham (Antrim, South)

If you comply with the request of the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton), Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you also arrange to have recorded the name of the Government Whip who has been objecting?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

It is undesirable that any hon. Member should take the opportunity of trying to get inserted in HANSARD matters would would not normally be inserted. It is much better that we should proceed until the Standing Orders have been changed by resolution of the House and the customs of the House in relation to them have been changed. It has been the practice for many years, ever since I have been a Member, that objection is; repeatedly taken to a number of Bills at Four o'clock on Friday afternoons. Members have done so from a sedentary position. If it is desired that the Standing Orders and the custom of the House should be changed, it can be done in an orderly way. But this is not the time for ventilating that matter. To continue to do so is merely an abuse of the procedure of the House.

Mr. Stanley Orme (Salford, West)

On a point of order. With due respect, the practice of the House is that Members stand up and are counted and recorded. I suggest that that practice be carried out on every occasion. No Member should be ashamed of any action or vote in the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

The hon. Gentleman is entitled to express that opinion, but it is contrary to the custom of the House as it exists, which I have no power to change. We should proceed.

Mr. Lipton

Further to the point of order. May I ask for an assurance that the HANSARD record of the proceedings of the last few minutes will not be censored by anybody?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

All I can say is that it is no part of my province to censor or edit the HANSARD report of these proceedings.

Mr. Charles Doughty (Surrey, East)

Would you arrange to have printed in HANSARD the fact that the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) endeavoured to get round the rules of the House, Mr. Deputy Speaker?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

What day? Friday next.