HC Deb 23 May 1968 vol 765 cc885-8
Mr. Hannan

I wish to make a complaint of breach of privilege based on a letter to the Scotsman of today's date. I am, therefore, raising the complaint at the earliest possible moment, and I have notified the hon. Member concerned, the hon. Lady the Member for Hamilton (Mrs. Ewing).

I will not read the whole of the letter, but I submit that it imputes intemperance, even drunkenness, to hon. Members. I quote: … the;customary stance of some M.P.s whilst at the House is closer to the many bars than the Bar of the House I suggest that this casts a smear on many hon. Members which is quite unjustified. These words, written by the hon. Member for Hamilton—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is difficult for the hon. Member to make himself heard if there is a background of noise.

Mr. Hannan

I submit that the words written by the hon. Member for Hamilton constitute a gross libel on the House, and particularly on Scottish Members to whom they were directed. It is clear, in my submission, that in the context of the correspondence, these innuendoes were maliciously intended to damage the personal reputation of Members, many of whom, like myself, are members of the Temperance Group in the House.

It is one thing to reflect on men's political views, and in the heat of battle many unkind and harsh things are said, but it is quite another thing to attack their personal conduct and, as they see it, their character.

I should be grateful, Mr. Speaker, if you would consider this matter, and, in the light of the precedents, give a decision.

Mr. Speaker

Would the hon. Member bring to me the newspaper of which he complains?

Copy of newspaper handed in.

Mr. Speaker

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for indicating earlier that he might seek to raise a question of privilege. As is my custom, I would ask the House for the usual time of 24 hours in which to study the matter. I propose to rule tomorrow morning on whether a prima facie case of privilege appears to arise.

Mrs. Ewing

On a point or order, Mr. Speaker. May I have your guidance—

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am trying to help the hon. Lady. The question at the moment is not whether a breach of privilege has taken place. The question is whether Mr. Speaker considers that there is a prima facie case of breach of privilege. I will rule on that tomorrow. The hon. Lady will have an opportunity to speak to that tomorrow, not now.

Mr. Michael Foot

Further to that point of order. Is not one of the difficulties that all Scottish Members, whatever their condition, will be in Scotland tomorrow?

Mr. Speaker

The Chair ignores the innuendo. It has just been suggested to me that perhaps it would be as well if, instead of Ruling on Friday, I ruled on Monday.

Mr. C. Pannell

Further to that point of order. The rules of the House give you, Mr. Speaker, a right to rule now. The question whether you defer for 24 hours arises if it is a matter of high constitutional importance, or to give an hon. Member 24 hours to think about this. I do not think that any rule of the House gives you a right, with great respect, Mr. Speaker, to wait longer than 24 hours. May I suggest, with very great respect, that we have a Ruling on this now?

Mr. Speaker

I understand the views of the right hon. Gentleman. The whole question of privilege has been examined by a Committee which has reported to the House but which has not yet been debated. I must for the present conform to custom, which is to defer a Ruling on a prima facie case for 24 hours. I think perhaps that it would be convenient if I ruled on Monday.

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. William Hamilton

We are creating an undesirable precedent. The issue raised by my hon. Friend is very important, and it is the duty of Scottish and English hon. Members to be here tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker

I am trying to sense the feeling of the House.

Mr. Thorpe

On a point of order. May I respectifully urge, Mr. Speaker, that the delay which you have asked for has two purposes. First, that you should have time to reflect upon the matter if you wish to do so. Secondly, it often provides an opportunity for certain representations to be made, as a result of which the House feels in certain circumstances that no further action is necessary.

Having myself raised such a point of order against this newspaper with the result that the next day the House felt that no further action should be taken, may I respectfully urge upon you that the right of reflection is a right which the House should allow you to have, if you so wish? May I further respectfully urge on you that the period of reflection should be 24 hours?

Mr. Peart

I would have thought, judging by the feelings of hon. Members and right hon. Members on both sides, tomorrow at 11 o'clock. I know that you, Mr. Speaker, have to make the decision.

Mr. Speaker

I am guided by what is apparently the feeling of the House. I will rule on the prima facie issue tomorrow.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Could you, Mr. Speaker, clear up the doubts raised in my mind by the point put to you by the Leader of the Liberal Party? As I understand the rule, whatever period you decide upon is for your reflection. With respect, I am very glad you have decided to rule tomorrow. Can you make it quite clear whether the right hon. Gentleman is correct in suggesting that you would be prepared to hear representations on how you should rule? This is a new and very dangerous doctrine.

Mr. Speaker

If the right hon. Gentleman did mean to suggest that, he is utterly wrong. I shall consult my advisers and decide on the issue tomorrow morning.

Mr. Thorpe

Further to that point of order. Since the right hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Boyd-Carpenter) quite properly and, in my submission, in the interests of the House, wishes to see that the record is correct, may I explain that I was not suggesting that during that period representations could or might be made to you, Sir. Certain letters have in the past been sent which have subsequently led the House of Commons to take what otherwise might have been a different view.

Mr. Speaker

Order. We are almost drifting into the merits. I shall rule tomorrow morning on the prima facie issue.