HC Deb 22 May 1968 vol 765 cc509-12
9. Mr. Monro

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will reach a decision on the proposal to introduce legislation to provide the police with powers to search individuals for offensive weapons.

30. Mr. MacArthnr

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has com- pleted his consideration of the proposal that the police should have power of search where the possession of an offensive weapon is suspected; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Buchan

The present view of my right hon. Friend is that time should be allowed for the effects to be shown of the recent clarification of the existing law of arrest in relation to offensive weapons.

Mr. Monro

Will the Minister take more definite action? Will he, for instance, consider bringing in early legislation of an experimental nature to see whether it will help in Glasgow?

Mr. Buchan

I thought I had made my answer fairly clear. In terms of the present request, no.

Mr. MacArthnr

The hon. Gentleman has been considering this question for some eight months. Will he accept that the police and the magistrates are in the front line of the fight against crime and are more aware of the problems and the needs than the hon. Gentleman can possibly be in his ivory tower? Will he take action at last to provide the police with the powers which they and the nation require?

Mr. Buchan

The hon. Member has not been reading the Press as diligently as perhaps he should. I have been very much involved in the situation in Glasgow over the past few months. I have seen the kind of problems facing the police. But with the new clarification they have received, I am sure that their confidence of their right to arrest people in situations for which search has been demanded introduces a new and helpful factor.

Mr. Dewar

Does my hon. Friend accept that many people in this House deplore the kind of sensationalised and extravagant campaign which has been running for re-vamped police powers, which many local authorities feel will be unhelpful and will complicate life for the police and bring Glasgow into unnecessary disrepute in the eyes of the world?

Mr. Buchan

This is absolutely true. I think it would have been more helpful in the situation and more helpful now if more constant reference was made to the real powers which do exist instead of aiding and abetting the thug by suggesting that no real powers exist.

Mr. Edward M. Taylor

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that it is the long delay more than the decision which has had such a serious effect on the morale of those fighting the battle against crime? Why cannot he come to a speedy decision?

Mr. Buchan

I thought I had made my answer clear. I am glad to know that the hon. Gentleman thinks it was the delay rather than the decision which was significant. I am pleased to know that he realises that at best the suggested powers were only marginal and possibly not helpful.

Mr. Hugh D. Brown

Does my hon. Friend agree that some hon. Gentlemen opposite would not know a council housing scheme in Glasgow if they saw it; that it would be quite helpful to those of us who have some intimate knowledge of the problem if they would desist this kind of campaign; and that many of us are satisfied that the police have adequate powers at the moment?

Mr. Buchan

I think the answer is, yes, to all three questions.

Mr. Monro

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

11. Mr. Dewar

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will consider introducing legislation to increase the maximum penalty for carrying an offensive weapon on summary conviction under the Prevention of Crime Act, 1953, from three months in prison to six months.

Mr. Buchan

I am not aware that the normal limit of three months in the powers of imprisonment of the sheriff summary court creates difficulties in disposing of offenders convicted of this offence.

Mr. Dewar

Will my hon. Friend accept that there is a body of reasonable opinion alarmed by the rise in the crime rate and the prevalence of this kind of offence who feel that a little more flexibility in sentencing policy would be an advantage and of help to the Bench in dealing with this kind of incident?

Mr. Buchan

Yes. But the sheriff's summary court can already impose borstal and detention sentences, so there is flexibility in length of time in that connection, and two years not three months, is the maximum sentence on indictment. So there is an element of flexibility on both counts which is adequate to deal with the problem.

Mr. Wylie

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the remedy is largely in the hands of the Lord Advocate? If he chose to take more cases on indictment, there would be no problem of three months, as he has pointed out.

Mr. Buchan

The hon. and learned Gentleman is correct to say that this is a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Advocate, and no doubt he will be noting the views expressed here this afternoon.